Need help with a mouse gun!

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If you can find one of these hot little numbers, I would highly recommend a Ruger LCP. It is far more than a belly-gun. I can shoot 5" patterns out to 15 yards quite easily. I am comforted by the ballistics of the .380 acp round... anything less and I might not feel as protected.

The .380 Automatic cartridge is slightly less effective than the .38 Special, but gives users of “mouseguns” the option to shoot expanding bullets from a 9mm x 17mm cartridge.

380geltt3.jpg


Mine has been through a few hundred trouble-free rounds so far.

My little pocket buddy:
mylcpin1.jpg
 
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Chicago Tex,

Sorry. I thought my conclusions about the .25 were accurate from the posts I read in this thread. I simply assumed that all the statements made about the .25 in this thread were truthful.

I bought a new .25 Beretta (I believe it was a Tomcat) in 1975. Tried several brands of ammo. Fired hundreds of rounds, through it, took it back to the dealer several times, but finally gave up on it, when I found out it was a common problem with that model. It was a true Jam-omatic. At least one in 50 rounds. I said never again.

So I should take it that .25 Beretta and the other .25 autos have now eliminated their previous inherent propensity to FTF, FTE, stovepipe etc?
 
gglass,

That is a one beautiful weapon. After much research and shooting the LCP and the Kel-tecs, I narrowed it down to the LCP and the 642. Since I have an SP101 that (ammo) helped me with my decision.
 
The Beretta 950 .25 is one of the most reliable .25s made. The model 20 was basically a double action model 950. The later model 21 was less reliable. The Tomcat is a .32, and it was not made in 1975.
People have carried .25s for over 100 years. They work as well as other guns. The .25 is not the best choice for defense, but it works.
 
Bill DeShivs,

Thank you for your reply.

I said in my post that "I believed it was a Tomcat" - Could not remember. Correction. I suppose “Didn’t want to remember” would be much more accurate.

But it was a .25 Beretta. And it was a Jam-omatic.

Even the dealer, who’s still selling guns today, said they were inherently jam prone and unreliable.

However, I am pleased to say I own several very reliable semi-autos today... all made by Herr Gaston.
 
The Beretta 950 .25 is one of the most reliable .25s made.
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I have never had any problems with mine. Pull the trigger, it goes bang. Clean it up after a session, next time that I pull the trigger, it goes bang.
 
I was picked for a security, bodyguard detail in the San Francisco Area that involved close, constant contact and appearances by the two principals. The principals demanded that weapons not be visible by anyone close. This was non-negotiable and is harder to do than you might think in a tuxedo. The outer perimeter had no restrictions. Long story short, I picked one of the two smallest guns I have in my arsenal and with your help went with my Beretta 950 Jetfire in 25 ACP. My carpal tunnel and trigger finger prevented me from using my Walther PPK/S and it is much more visible than the Jetfire.

Many of the handguns I have I can no longer shoot due to my problems. Normally I don’t do work like this but the money was way too good! If I could meet each of you that contributed your vast knowledge I would buy you a drink.
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Man alive, you are being paid a good salary to protect the life of someone with a .25 ACP Mouse Gun??????

So you are going to reliably stop a determined would be assassin with rounds that generate around 66 ft/lbs of energy? You will have to score 6 hits on the attacker in order to just equal the energy in one top level 9mm +P load.

OMG, I would not pay 2 cents for that level of protection!!! Ha ha!! :eek::eek::eek:

Only in San Francisco could this possibly happen. :D:D

I wonder how the US Secret Service is able to protect the President of the United States at all of those formal events that he attends. Perhaps they use .25 ACP Mouse guns to protect his life too.


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The principals demanded that weapons not be visible by anyone close. This was non-negotiable
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In private security, the clients set the terms. They're stupid terms, and ones I might be personally inclined to walk away from, but that doesn't change things. It's not the OP's fault he's carrying a .25, it's the clients', and when push comes to shove they ought to get the protection they demanded and paid for...
 
The .25 is not the best choice for defense, but it works.
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This situation being discussed in this thread is not for personal defense, however. It is for use by a bodyguard to protect an important person from attack.

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In private security, the clients set the terms. They're stupid terms, and ones I might be personally inclined to walk away from, but that doesn't change things. It's not the OP's fault he's carrying a .25, it's the clients', and when push comes to shove they ought to get the protection they demanded and paid for...
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So it is impossible to effectively conceal anything bigger than a .25 ACP mouse gun while wearing a Tux at a formal event? I find that premise extremely difficult to swallow, to say the very least.


Tuxedo.jpg


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So it is impossible to effectively conceal anything bigger than a .25 ACP mouse gun while wearing a Tux at a formal event? I find that premise extremely difficult to swallow, to say the very least.
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According to the OP, that is his experience. Maybe his tux is too tight, maybe his frame isn't conducive to concealment. I don't know and I don't care - that's not the subject of this thread and I refuse to debate what is and is not concealable on a person I've never met wearing a garment I've never seen. Would *I* personally find a way to carry something more persuasive? You're damn right I would, but I'm not the subject of this thread and I won't project myself on the OP.
 
Mouse Guns

Larry, does mousy looking count? I can think of a couple of guys in Washington that fit that description. LOL
 
Yeah, I agree AKR! Ya gotta check this out:

Discussion on the .25 auto ​

"So we were sitting at the table in the hospitality room here at Circus Circus talking about small backup guns and someone mentioned how a visitor to his blog got all bent out of shape because of disparaging remarks about the .25 auto. I went looking with my cell phone web browser for what Jeff Cooper had to say about the .25, which is how I would handle someone defending the .25 as a defensive tool. I found the quotes but the moment had passed. Here they are--better late than never I guess:

We hear of an unfortunate woman who, during an nighttime asthma attack, confused the small handgun she kept under her pillow with an asthma inhaler and proceeded to relieve her symptoms. It was not a fatal mistake, partly because she used a 25 ACP, which everyone knows is not sufficient to clear sinuses."

Jeff Cooper
Jeff Cooper's Commentaries
Vol. 2, No. 2
31 January 1994


"Our old buddy Gene Harshbarger from Guatemala reports a recent episode with the 25 ACP pistol cartridge. It seems that Gene's cousin was set upon by a trio of car thieves who shot him once almost dead center with that dinky little pistol. The bullet entered at a very flat angle, however, proceeded laterally just inside the pectoral muscle, and exited after about 5 inches of traverse, continuing on into the target's left arm.

The cousin hit the deck and started shooting back, whereupon the assailants split. When he stood up the bullet slid out of his left sleeve and bounced on the pavement. It penetrated the jacket, but not the skin of his left arm!

As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you."

Jeff Cooper
From Jeff Cooper's Commentaries
Vol. 4, No. 14
December 1996


"A .25 is a nice thing to have when you're not carrying a gun."

Massad F. Ayoob
On the use of .25 caliber handgun.
In the Gravest Extreme
End of chapter 14
 
"A .25 is a nice thing to have when you're not carrying a gun."
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I believe, absent the literary snarkiness, that's been the point of a lot of folks here all along.

As to Jeff Cooper, I realize he's something of a Sacred Cow in the gun culture and I mean no disrespect to the man or his accomplishments, but I, and many other very intelligent people, have disagreed with him on numerous occaisons over a huge range of issues.

Furthermore, I find fourth-party anecdotes highly suspect and therefore rarely worth more than the text that forms them.

I can't fathom, Mr. Spencer, why you seem so intent on convincing everyone here that you are definitively and in all instances the winner of an argument you're not even really arguing.

THE QUESTION WAS (for all of you who can't seem to recall) SHOULD THE ORIGINAL POSTER USE A .25ACP BERETTA OR A .22 MAGNUM DERRINGER

You (and a few others) have instead chosen to turn this thread into a ".25ACP sucks and should never be used by anybody" thread (of which there are PLENTY if you do a quick search of the forum's history). Almost everyone who has since followed up has conceded that the .25ACP does indeed sit very near the bottom of the totem pole for ideal armament in any situation but have made a legitimate argument that YOU REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE that carrying a .25ACP is preferable to carrying no gun at all. What you fail to grasp is that, from the outset of this thread, there was a binary choice choice on the table and your posts have only served to tout a nonexistant "option C" that is tantamount to arguing that the OP go entirely unarmed (something that is obviously an unacceptable option).

I'm all for stirring debate, but only when relevant and productive, your posts in this thread have been neither and are now devolving into quoting others (likely out of context) to support your desire to be seen as "right" in your own personal unsolicited side-debate. If you want to talk about how much the .25ACP sucks (or doesn't suck), start your own thread and stop hijacking this one.
 
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