Learned a lesson tonight
- Thread starter JUMP
- Start date
zincwarrior
New member
Interestingly, would Jack__ be in fear of his life and then be able to blow them away?
sirgilligan
New member
Would you have been frustrated enough to get your mouth busted too? Would you cuss out two women when they have pulled over to let you pass?
sirgilligan
New member
He didn't. And John didn't shoot him for attacking his wife either. No gun needed.
I remember the day at high school when you would see a rifle in the truck window rack. Nobody thought twice and no one was going to get it out and shoot someone when they got in a fight either.
I'm sure it's happened. Somebody gets in another's face, the one being accosted decides to throw the first punch and knocks the other down. The aggressor is now the victim, pulls a pistol and ends it, quickly.
There's always at least two sides to every story, especially one where a fight is described. While the guy may have been yelling, using nasty words, and maybe even pointing his index finger... none of those things would make a reasonable person fear for their life. Once that punch is thrown, the would-be victim has become the antagonist, opened himself up to physical retaliation and hurt if not destroyed any legal argument about self defense that he may have.
Maybe that's how they do it down in Kentucky. Good thing that boater didn't have a gun, a knife, or a better chin.
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sirgilligan
New member
TexasJustice7
New member
BOATMAN98:
Lesson #1 here, if you carry, never leave your "main carry" at home! Unless you're going to be going through a metal detector/body search area, you should never be unarmed. Never.
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Well, a similar incident happened to me on the street in front of the post office. My guns were in the vehicle with my disabled daughter. I was outside the vehicle. I simply locked the door with my car remote, and was greeted by a loud, rude, profanity from a man who said, (in words I cannot repeat here) I was not gonna steal your (explecative). He left, and I warned the postmaster that he should have a security guard in the parking lot, or there was liable to be an incidence of violence in the parking lot. He quickly lanced at me, I guess to see if I was armed, (and I was not) because I am a law abiding citisen. Now I go only early in the morning. I always have two guns with me but take the time to move them to my car console or car pouch before I drive to the post office parking lot. When I thought about the incident later, it came to my mind that the guy could have actually planned to carjack my vehicle, but got mad when I set the alarm. I follow the rule of always being armed with at least one gun, usually my CA 44 Bulldog, in a paddle holster, and a S&W 38 Spl in my cargo shorts pocket, (CA makes good pocket holsters), but I do not carry at the post office, nor on VA property. I do intend to carry everywhere I can legally carry, and will not go anywhere that is legal to carry without my cell phone and my guns, because if I can help it I do not intend to be a victim. At this same Post Office I quite
often see police from a nearby town enter the post office and they are armed
but I suppose that it is acceptable for them to be. I don't think they are on
official business, when I have seen them enter it armed. Also there is no
"no gun" sign at the post office. Small rural town.
Lesson #1 here, if you carry, never leave your "main carry" at home! Unless you're going to be going through a metal detector/body search area, you should never be unarmed. Never.
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Well, a similar incident happened to me on the street in front of the post office. My guns were in the vehicle with my disabled daughter. I was outside the vehicle. I simply locked the door with my car remote, and was greeted by a loud, rude, profanity from a man who said, (in words I cannot repeat here) I was not gonna steal your (explecative). He left, and I warned the postmaster that he should have a security guard in the parking lot, or there was liable to be an incidence of violence in the parking lot. He quickly lanced at me, I guess to see if I was armed, (and I was not) because I am a law abiding citisen. Now I go only early in the morning. I always have two guns with me but take the time to move them to my car console or car pouch before I drive to the post office parking lot. When I thought about the incident later, it came to my mind that the guy could have actually planned to carjack my vehicle, but got mad when I set the alarm. I follow the rule of always being armed with at least one gun, usually my CA 44 Bulldog, in a paddle holster, and a S&W 38 Spl in my cargo shorts pocket, (CA makes good pocket holsters), but I do not carry at the post office, nor on VA property. I do intend to carry everywhere I can legally carry, and will not go anywhere that is legal to carry without my cell phone and my guns, because if I can help it I do not intend to be a victim. At this same Post Office I quite
often see police from a nearby town enter the post office and they are armed
but I suppose that it is acceptable for them to be. I don't think they are on
official business, when I have seen them enter it armed. Also there is no
"no gun" sign at the post office. Small rural town.
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Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. I purchased a LC9 yesterday(I have been looking for an excuse to get one). I am currently looking at pocket holsters. It does feel nice in my pocket. Now I need to go shoot it. 
@ younggunz4life
I was caught off guard. I was put into a uncomfortable situation by my own complacency. I have practiced drawing my BUG from the ankle and never thought it would be a problem until I had a man standing 10 feet from me telling me he was going to kill me. Those words changed the whole situation for me. I realized that getting that gun out if he made good on his threat was problematic at best. 10 feet can be covered by an average man in about 1/2 of a second. It would take me at best 2 seconds to get my gun out. I don't know if he had a weapon. I didn't want to find out. haha I don't want it to happen again. So no more ankle holster for me.
JUMP
@ younggunz4life
I was caught off guard. I was put into a uncomfortable situation by my own complacency. I have practiced drawing my BUG from the ankle and never thought it would be a problem until I had a man standing 10 feet from me telling me he was going to kill me. Those words changed the whole situation for me. I realized that getting that gun out if he made good on his threat was problematic at best. 10 feet can be covered by an average man in about 1/2 of a second. It would take me at best 2 seconds to get my gun out. I don't know if he had a weapon. I didn't want to find out. haha I don't want it to happen again. So no more ankle holster for me.
JUMP
JUMP, I highly recommend the High Noon Pocket Grabber.
http://highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/_Pocket_Grabber/_pocket_grabber.html
Also my advice is that when re-holstering, always take the holster out of your pocket, holster the gun, then insert the whole thing back into your pocket. Never try to re-holster directly in the pocket.
For a lighter option, the Blackhawk is nice as well.
http://shopruger.com/BLACKHAWK-LC9-Pocket-Holster/productinfo/50176/
http://highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/_Pocket_Grabber/_pocket_grabber.html
Also my advice is that when re-holstering, always take the holster out of your pocket, holster the gun, then insert the whole thing back into your pocket. Never try to re-holster directly in the pocket.
For a lighter option, the Blackhawk is nice as well.
http://shopruger.com/BLACKHAWK-LC9-Pocket-Holster/productinfo/50176/
youngunz4life
New member
gilligan, thanx for the story and jump, thanx for the further explanation. I pocket carry myself, and it works very well for me.
zincwarrior
New member
Good points. I have heard good things about the LC9, and this at least gives you the opportunity to have a better carry position for you. I hope you bought that munchkin some serious ice cream!
Have 2yo and 12yo girls myself. The 12yo is quite a shooter...
Anyways, I know where you are coming from and agree. I would have probably reacted differently to insure he didn't carry out his threats, and wanted to point out the following.
There is a 3yo little girl being threatened here as well. If you go down (even just knocked out)...what happens to her...no one is left to stop the BG.
I am glad that things ended the way they did, but honestly once he began to advance on me issuing threats, with my 2yo daughter present i would have stopped the threat.
I believe you can use deadly force to stop the threat if you reasonably believe death or serious bodily harm is going to come to you or OTHERS. My daughter does not have a chance if I get removed from action.
The threats that were made toward YOU, in my opinion were made to you and YOUR 3YO daughter as you had to put her behind you to defend her.
That's the part that really upsets me...just something to think about.
Good job and glad everyone came out of it safely...so your actions proved successful (ignore all of us armchair quarterbacks)....just providing something to think about for others should they have the same happen.
Anyways, I know where you are coming from and agree. I would have probably reacted differently to insure he didn't carry out his threats, and wanted to point out the following.
There is a 3yo little girl being threatened here as well. If you go down (even just knocked out)...what happens to her...no one is left to stop the BG.
I am glad that things ended the way they did, but honestly once he began to advance on me issuing threats, with my 2yo daughter present i would have stopped the threat.
I believe you can use deadly force to stop the threat if you reasonably believe death or serious bodily harm is going to come to you or OTHERS. My daughter does not have a chance if I get removed from action.
The threats that were made toward YOU, in my opinion were made to you and YOUR 3YO daughter as you had to put her behind you to defend her.
That's the part that really upsets me...just something to think about.
Good job and glad everyone came out of it safely...so your actions proved successful (ignore all of us armchair quarterbacks)....just providing something to think about for others should they have the same happen.
Jump, not for nothing, but your story has changed somewhat.
In your OP you said this:
That has now become:
I think that information from the beginning would have yielded some different answers. Being verbally threatening, as in "I'll kick your ***" or "I'll mess you up" is quite different from someone actually saying they will kill you as they advance. If someone literally says that, the fear of that happening is more specific and self-defense use of force becomes less of a question.
In your OP you said this:
That has now become:
I think that information from the beginning would have yielded some different answers. Being verbally threatening, as in "I'll kick your ***" or "I'll mess you up" is quite different from someone actually saying they will kill you as they advance. If someone literally says that, the fear of that happening is more specific and self-defense use of force becomes less of a question.
ZincWarrior:
I'm sure the law varies from state to state, but in New York state I know that if someone who is armed provokes someone into assaulting him like the loud mouth did, he is guilty of assault with a deadly weapon and would not be justified in shooting the one who threw the punch.
I'm sure the law varies from state to state, but in New York state I know that if someone who is armed provokes someone into assaulting him like the loud mouth did, he is guilty of assault with a deadly weapon and would not be justified in shooting the one who threw the punch.
zincwarrior
New member
Ok in that scenario, how would he be guilty of assault? Note this is completely OT from the thread and might be its own thread.
*Player A gets his panties in a wad and shouts at Player B because Player A is a jerk.
*Player B punches him in the face.
*Player A caps him, alleging imminent fear of his life.
How has Player A assaulted anyone? Verbally abusive yes, but "assaultive?" (as in some sort of criminal assault). No way.
This is why it pays to be speak softly and not act rashly if one is legally carrying (or generally in life).
*Player A gets his panties in a wad and shouts at Player B because Player A is a jerk.
*Player B punches him in the face.
*Player A caps him, alleging imminent fear of his life.
How has Player A assaulted anyone? Verbally abusive yes, but "assaultive?" (as in some sort of criminal assault). No way.
This is why it pays to be speak softly and not act rashly if one is legally carrying (or generally in life).
Not to hijack/redirect the thread.. but some good points were brought up.
There's a difference between putting yourself between your daughter and somebody yelling at you to shield her, or as a precautionary measure... and standing in front of your daughter to protect her from an imminent attack.
Yelling, screaming, pointing, fist shaking, even threats of harm are not always enough to make a "reasonable person" feel as though their life (or their daughter's) is seriously threatened.
Those who say they would "stop the threat" when he was yelling at them and their daughter need to re-look at their state laws and perhaps take a local CCW course, or they might wind up putting themselves in prison and their daughter without a father anyway. It is vital to know the conditions that must be met for when presenting a firearm, let alone discharging one, is legally justified.
And yes, verbal attacks can be a form of assault. Provokation can also be considered assault. Check your state's criminal statutes.
There's a difference between putting yourself between your daughter and somebody yelling at you to shield her, or as a precautionary measure... and standing in front of your daughter to protect her from an imminent attack.
Yelling, screaming, pointing, fist shaking, even threats of harm are not always enough to make a "reasonable person" feel as though their life (or their daughter's) is seriously threatened.
Those who say they would "stop the threat" when he was yelling at them and their daughter need to re-look at their state laws and perhaps take a local CCW course, or they might wind up putting themselves in prison and their daughter without a father anyway. It is vital to know the conditions that must be met for when presenting a firearm, let alone discharging one, is legally justified.
And yes, verbal attacks can be a form of assault. Provokation can also be considered assault. Check your state's criminal statutes.