Learned a lesson tonight
- Thread starter JUMP
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secret_agent_man
Moderator
No. What a dumb ### he is. You are obviously dealing here with someone on the lower end of the Bell Curve. With the exponential expansion of the population, seems they're all over the place. It's getting so bad out there, I am considering a 45 caliber for a primary, and anther 45 caliber as a BUG.
Perhaps, but then don't wear one.
Personally I find one useful at times. Rather than carry speed strips for my J-Frame pocket revolver, I find it more convenient to carry a S&W 3913 as my, "Reload of choice". My personal choices are 1) belly band, 2) camera bag, ankle holster. I find that each of these have pluses and minuses. Then so does carrying a firearm have pluses and minuses.
I reckon there are folks that truly think their personal view of the world ought be the way for everyone. Perhaps the OP ran into one of those.
1. There is a 3 year old daughter to protect (did the other guy have his eye on the 3 year old?????)
2. From the description of the incident, . . . accepting as true, . . . there was no sane reason for the altercation in the first place.
3. From the above quote, . . . I would have taken the man to be a man of his word, . . . accepted that he planned on making real on his threats, . . . and I would have unholstered, . . . pointing the weapon at the ground.
I don't fool around with drunks, druggies, or loudmouth illegitimate birthed idiots who may let their battleship mouths get their rowboat rear ends in trouble.
Once the threats were uttered, . . . it is time for this 66 year old to de-escalate the whole thing the best way possible, . . . and once he had closed to inside of 20 feet, . . . it's time to get the hardware out. Anything closer will be too late, . . . and it may already be, . . . but it is time to act, . . . and then call 911 and let the lawyers and cops sort it out while the 3 year old and I are safe from harm.
But to the OP, . . . you did good, . . . you are undoubtedly younger and in better shape, . . . and you got home safe. Score one for your side.
May God bless,
Dwight
BlackFeather
New member
De-escalation was the best tool in this situation. The child being there posed a good and bad addition. You would instinctively want to protect the child in the fastest and most effective way. Kneeling down to "help her" may have given you the chance to draw, and maybe put the gun elsewhere. Even better, with something between you and the aggressor. However, as was said, drawing the gun with only a verbal confrontation is never a good idea.
The question is opinions on ankle carry, my opinion is not to do it. Too many things in your way, too much time. As far as I see it, a back up gun should be brought out faster than a primary gun. I also believe that if a gun is your first physical defense, you may want to consider more hand to hand training. Drawing anything while under physical attacks isn't easy, especially from your ankle.
The question is opinions on ankle carry, my opinion is not to do it. Too many things in your way, too much time. As far as I see it, a back up gun should be brought out faster than a primary gun. I also believe that if a gun is your first physical defense, you may want to consider more hand to hand training. Drawing anything while under physical attacks isn't easy, especially from your ankle.
riverwalker76
New member
Again, I agree that the OP did a good job at defusing the situation.
However, his first thought was to reach for his gun! You can see how this could be troubling to some who don't know the OP.
Blackfeather hit the nail on the head! If you are only confident when carrying a concealed weapon then you might want to get some basic hand to hand defense skills under your belt.
I know that's easier said than done in today's real world of 'not enough time in the day', but it's something you might want to consider.
After all, the best confrontation is one you can verbally talk your way out of. Never draw unless physically threatened, and you feel you cannot protect yourself otherwise. Fleeing the situation, especially with children present, is not always the cowardly thing to do. It might not fit into your list of 'manly' things to do, but it is a possibility.
However, his first thought was to reach for his gun! You can see how this could be troubling to some who don't know the OP.
Blackfeather hit the nail on the head! If you are only confident when carrying a concealed weapon then you might want to get some basic hand to hand defense skills under your belt.
I know that's easier said than done in today's real world of 'not enough time in the day', but it's something you might want to consider.
After all, the best confrontation is one you can verbally talk your way out of. Never draw unless physically threatened, and you feel you cannot protect yourself otherwise. Fleeing the situation, especially with children present, is not always the cowardly thing to do. It might not fit into your list of 'manly' things to do, but it is a possibility.
Riverwalker76,
I never said that I would have drawn on the BG. I was only trying to make the point that I learned my lesson about working in the garage and taking my gun off to be more comfortable. Then leaving the house without it was not a good move.
The only way I will ever pull out my weapon is if I am threatened beyond means of escape. I will try to defuse any situation verbally before resorting to my weapons(I was carrying my revolver on my ankle after all). I was able to move and protect my daughter that is all that I want to do and the entire reason that I carry in the first place is to defend my family and myself.
I have been carrying for close to 12 years off/on. I have never been as threatened as I was last night.
Very good food for thought though and thanks for the advice to everyone.
I never said that I would have drawn on the BG. I was only trying to make the point that I learned my lesson about working in the garage and taking my gun off to be more comfortable. Then leaving the house without it was not a good move.
The only way I will ever pull out my weapon is if I am threatened beyond means of escape. I will try to defuse any situation verbally before resorting to my weapons(I was carrying my revolver on my ankle after all). I was able to move and protect my daughter that is all that I want to do and the entire reason that I carry in the first place is to defend my family and myself.
I have been carrying for close to 12 years off/on. I have never been as threatened as I was last night.
Very good food for thought though and thanks for the advice to everyone.
robmkivseries70
New member
Hi Jump,
I thought you did fine, The other guy probably thought his driving was insulted. LOL. Tying one's shoe is a good pre-draw exercise. In a serious confrontation you are a smaller target at ground level with a knee in front of your chest. Having a BUG in the child's car carrier might be an alternative strategy.
Best,
Rob
I thought you did fine, The other guy probably thought his driving was insulted. LOL. Tying one's shoe is a good pre-draw exercise. In a serious confrontation you are a smaller target at ground level with a knee in front of your chest. Having a BUG in the child's car carrier might be an alternative strategy.
Best,
Rob
Defusing is the best option when possible.
It always has seemed to me that ankle carry is so clumsy and slow as to be useless if you need a gun relatively fast.
I sometimes carry my P3AT in a pocket holster. It is better in 20/20 hindsight that there was not gun shown, but you can never guess what will happen next.
Glad you and your daughter came through OK.
Regards,
Jerry
It always has seemed to me that ankle carry is so clumsy and slow as to be useless if you need a gun relatively fast.
I sometimes carry my P3AT in a pocket holster. It is better in 20/20 hindsight that there was not gun shown, but you can never guess what will happen next.
Glad you and your daughter came through OK.
Regards,
Jerry
I agree with you, Riverwalker, that an initial response of, draw the gun, when someone gets upset is not good. But, I can definitely see how as soon as a potential confrontation looms ahead, it's very sensible to start thinking out the moves in advance. This situation should cause one who carries to consider his options if things go south. But I don't think that's what's here. OP said:
Looks like he was just suddenly concerned that if the BG carried out his threats, his options were limited because he wasn't toting Roscoe #1. I think this is a perfectly reasonable thought process.
armoredman
New member
I would have to say we are all basing our responses off our locale. In AZ, when threatened with physical violence, it is legal under Defensive Display to show a firearm, in an attempt to defuse the situation, as described in Prof. Klecks research as occuring a million times or more a year. I also would agree that I, myself, would not use an ankle holster, but many do, and are happy with it. I would prefer a pocket rig, so as to have the unobtrusive hand on the gun for insta-draw if needed, especially in this case.
We can Monday Morning Quarterback this one to death, but what the OP did worked, with no violence neccesary.
I use BUGs on occaision, and feel it is a viable option.
We can Monday Morning Quarterback this one to death, but what the OP did worked, with no violence neccesary.
I use BUGs on occaision, and feel it is a viable option.
Terminus009
New member
oops
Hi Jump,
Since I live in stone-age Illinois, my carry piece is a 2" swiss army pocket knife complete with tweezers and a toothpick. My home piece is a S&W Bodyguard .380. If ccw ever comes to my state I will carry the little gun IWB. It will be my main and bug. Short range self-defence is all I would carry for. Ankle holster for me is too much of a telegraph of the fact I am drawing. IWB is quick to grab, and with a small piece, totally non-printing.
Glad you extricated without having to draw.
JA
Hi Jump,
Since I live in stone-age Illinois, my carry piece is a 2" swiss army pocket knife complete with tweezers and a toothpick. My home piece is a S&W Bodyguard .380. If ccw ever comes to my state I will carry the little gun IWB. It will be my main and bug. Short range self-defence is all I would carry for. Ankle holster for me is too much of a telegraph of the fact I am drawing. IWB is quick to grab, and with a small piece, totally non-printing.
Glad you extricated without having to draw.
JA
I ankle carried a J frame for a while years ago when I first started carrying because it worked well when I was driving. I would switch it to IWB when I got out of the car.
The problem was that I found myself sometimes forgetting to make the switch. There were also times when I found myself getting lax, telling myself not to worry about making the switch just this once to save a bit of time.
Then I had a situation where I might have needed the gun and I felt completely stupid for leaving it in my ankle holster. No way would an assailant give you the time to pull up your pants leg and draw from an ankle holster. Luckily I didn't have to, but that was all it took for me to never rely on ankle carry for a main gun. It might be ok for a backup gun or a third gun but definitely not for a main carry gun.
Now I know that pocket carry works best for my J frame.
It's good that things worked out for you and you learned just like I did. Spread the word and hopefully help another citizen gun owner.
The problem was that I found myself sometimes forgetting to make the switch. There were also times when I found myself getting lax, telling myself not to worry about making the switch just this once to save a bit of time.
Then I had a situation where I might have needed the gun and I felt completely stupid for leaving it in my ankle holster. No way would an assailant give you the time to pull up your pants leg and draw from an ankle holster. Luckily I didn't have to, but that was all it took for me to never rely on ankle carry for a main gun. It might be ok for a backup gun or a third gun but definitely not for a main carry gun.
Now I know that pocket carry works best for my J frame.
It's good that things worked out for you and you learned just like I did. Spread the word and hopefully help another citizen gun owner.
Jeremiah/Az
New member
I think the OP did well, but I do not like ankle carry.
I carry OWB at 4:00. At 8:00 on the other side is a small can of pepper spray that I can hold in my hand without it being seen.
I carry OWB at 4:00. At 8:00 on the other side is a small can of pepper spray that I can hold in my hand without it being seen.
I don't understand the lack of confidence in a BUG. If you don't feel confident in it practice more or carry something you trust.
OP did good, nobody important got hurt except for the BG. He got his feelings hurt. If you got his address I'll send him a sympathy card.
Bottom line, if you can de-escalate the situation and go home that's always going to be Plan A. Plan B sucks.
OP did good, nobody important got hurt except for the BG. He got his feelings hurt. If you got his address I'll send him a sympathy card.
Bottom line, if you can de-escalate the situation and go home that's always going to be Plan A. Plan B sucks.
Onward Allusion
New member
Jump,
You done good by de-escalating the situation. I'm glad things worked out for you. You kind of demonstrated the "better to have a .22 in your pocket than a .45 on the nightstand (or in your ankle holster)" saying.
I used to use an ankle holster a long time ago and learned that they are not good for almost all situations. The only situation I can think of where an ankle holster would be beneficial is in a car and being able to reach for it while sitting down.
Pocket holster for a PF9 is very doable in the back pocket of a pair of jeans. Depending on the person, a loaded PF9 could be a bit heavy/large for the front pants pocket. IWB is also good, but requires pants 1" or so looser around the waist.
You done good by de-escalating the situation. I'm glad things worked out for you. You kind of demonstrated the "better to have a .22 in your pocket than a .45 on the nightstand (or in your ankle holster)" saying.
I used to use an ankle holster a long time ago and learned that they are not good for almost all situations. The only situation I can think of where an ankle holster would be beneficial is in a car and being able to reach for it while sitting down.
Pocket holster for a PF9 is very doable in the back pocket of a pair of jeans. Depending on the person, a loaded PF9 could be a bit heavy/large for the front pants pocket. IWB is also good, but requires pants 1" or so looser around the waist.