Learned a lesson tonight

Lose the ankle rig. If you would have had to draw, you would have done it from a bent-over position under great duress and leaving your child and yourself vulnerable.

Aside from that, good lessons learned.
 
glad you're ok

the guy was an idiot. I can understand how you learned your lesson with the BUG issue; if you needed it, she probably would've pulled thru if it was ready to go which I am sure it was.

mikenice had a pretty good post in response to this earlier in the thread. No gun was necessary in this incident in my opinion, but if he charged or tried to get physical then the ante is upped. I am interested in what kind of threats or the length of time this incident happened? was this guy following you for a while and what was he shouting? another hothead scaring little girls...jeesh
 
My first post on TFL but, I have been learning things here for the last year.

Tonight I went with my daughter to get a treat at the ice cream shop down the road. I was unbuckling her from her car seat (she is 3 years old) when a car blaring music pulled up very close to my open door. I grabbed my truck door because it was so close. I thought nothing of it and helped my daughter from the truck. We made it 20 feet away from the truck when the driver of the other car started yelling at us. He was angry that I yanked my door out of the way. I guess I offended him. He was being very threatening verbally and was advancing towards us. Here is my problem. I left my main carry gun at home. I only had my BUG on my ankle. I was in a very bad situation, if he made real on his threats.

I remained calm and stepped in front of my 3 year old. I slowly walked away from him without breaking eye contact. i told him I didn't mean anything by moving my door and that I didn't have a problem with him. My daughter was scared and crying. I made it out into the parking lot with two cars between us before he finally disengaged.

All I could think through this whole incident was what a dumb ### I am.

What would have happened if he had ran at me with only my BUG on my ankle. I cringe at the thought. Mostly for my daughter.

I am now looking at pocket holsters for the LC9 I am going to buy Monday.

Anyone else ever use an ankle holster for their BUG? I would like to hear your thoughts.

JUMP
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Why on earth are you beating yourself up?
1. You did the appropriate, logical, and smart thing by de-escalating the situation. Not only was it smart it was something many of us would be hard pressed to do once your daughter started crying (that whole parental bear response). But better to walki away then escalate and have the daughter witness a full on confrontation - its a "teachable moment" (sorry...) for her and you could use it to talk through de-escalating things in the future.

2. You had your BUG gun. thats kinda the point of having it isn't it?
 
Ankle holsters are still a very viable option for those who desire deep concealment. I, for one, do not discount them out of hand.
 
Ankle holsters are still a very viable option for those who desire deep concealment

I'm sure that's true, but in JUMP's case, if he had needed to draw, he would have had to do it from a compromised body position quite possibly with the bad guy at contact range and with a weapon of his own. With a small child to defend, another type of carry would have been optimum. Live and learn.
 
My friend just took a required course to get his CCW. Luckily I only had to have Hunters Ed for mine. He informed me of all the things they taught him about how not to get arrested or sued in a conflict such as that. Its ridiculous.
 
Riverwalker- are you willing to take punches from an "unarmed" aggressor before considering yourself to be in danger of great bodily harm?

If the nutjob advances quickly and strikes the right way, all it takes is one hit and it's all over.
 
Heres my two cents worth: I am 66 years old, and Im not gonna knock
around on the ground with some guy 20 years my junior! Aint happening!
I have been in this situation, with a younger attacker, and I shot him!
There is something known as "disparity of force" when an older person is
faced by a much younger attacker, as I was. While I think the OP did fine,
I think I might have handled it a little different. These guys pull this crap
on seemingly timid targets all the time, its why they feel emboldened to do
this stuff. I think that if a few of em get capped by those "timid" folks, then
word will get around in their little groups.
 
Riverwalker- are you willing to take punches from an "unarmed" aggressor before considering yourself to be in danger of great bodily harm?

If the nutjob advances quickly and strikes the right way, all it takes is one hit and it's all over.
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Laws of different states vary. Many states require the standard of fear of death of severe injury. Defending yourself in a courtroom is going to be an incredibly expense process, one not to be taken likely, and the burden will be upon you to prove that was the situation. Depending on the situation, and jurisdiction, that may be extremely difficult.
 
I left my main carry gun at home.
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A fine lot of good it did you there, huh?

Lesson learned.

You did well, as you got out of the deal unscathed and not in legal trouble.

That said, that outcome was because the goblin did not attack you. Trust goblins to act logically/rationally at your peril- there is no telling what they will do.

riverwalker: Fists can kill you. If you let a thug get up on you and start landing blows before you get a grip, you may not be able to remain conscious to decide it's time to draw ..... let alone get the gun out and into action....... 21 feet is/1.5 sec isvery little time to act as it is ..... why throw that away?
 
I agree with you, Riverwalker, that an initial response of, draw the gun, when someone gets upset is not good. But, I can definitely see how as soon as a potential confrontation looms ahead, it's very sensible to start thinking out the moves in advance. This situation should cause one who carries to consider his options if things go south. But I don't think that's what's here.
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Well said


Zincwarrior-
I don't think the OP is beating himself up over retreating, which was the right way to handle the situation, but rather he is simply pointing out that leaving his EDC at home could have been a costly mistake had things gone differently.
 
OP-
All is well that ends well. Maintaining distance and de-escalating the situation is the ideal solution when possible, especially since your daughter was there. As it turned out, this was a free reminder on how easily things can happen.
 
Zincwarrior-
I don't think the OP is beating himself up over retreating, which was the right way to handle the situation, but rather he is simply pointing out that leaving his EDC at home could have been a costly mistake had things gone differently.
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Gotcha. Although I think the holster location might have been an issue for this compatriot, and he can now revise, I'd proffer worrying about only having the BUG gun is misplaced. If one has a BUG gun, one should be able to rely on it.

Ankle holsters are like other holsters, outfit and operator preference decide whats best for them. As I live in "sinners go to Hell, REAL sinners go to Texas" Texas, shorts are standard issue uniform half the year and an ankle holster looks a little out of place...;)
 
Lots of posts have said some version of "The OP's first thought was to pull a gun." I don't read that. His first thought was to protect his daughter, and he thought of his gun as one of his available tools to do that. Isn't that why we buy and carry guns? He realized quickly that the only gun at his disposal was in an ankle holster, and that came into his decision making, but he used his wits to get out of a dangerous situation without drawing or firing. Who is to say that he would not have had the same result if he had a pistol IWB instead of on his ankle? He posted because he was shaken and wanted to remind those of us who read such things that we should never consider ourselves to safe too carry our sidearms. Completely valid point to make, and an excellent illustration.

OP, you did fine. You protected that which is most precious to you and you got home safe without needing a lawyer. There are people who go around looking for things to be insulted about; who has not had someone give you a dirty look or a hard word instead of thanks when you held a door open for them. The worst of them can be dangerous. You survived an encounter with one of those with no ill effects. Nice job.
 
I wrote:
Riverwalker- are you willing to take punches from an "unarmed" aggressor before considering yourself to be in danger of great bodily harm?

If the nutjob advances quickly and strikes the right way, all it takes is one hit and it's all over.
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Zincwarrior wrote:
Laws of different states vary. Many states require the standard of fear of death of severe injury. Defending yourself in a courtroom is going to be an incredibly expense process, one not to be taken likely, and the burden will be upon you to prove that was the situation. Depending on the situation, and jurisdiction, that may be extremely difficult.
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Are these not the same thing? I would be in fear of great bodily harm, or severe injury, if someone is advancing angrily toward me with raised fists. I'm not going to wait to be pummeled before trying to defend myself.
 
In this case,,,

if someone is advancing angrily toward me with raised fists. I'm not going to wait to be pummeled before trying to defend myself.
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I believe the presence of the 3-year old daughter would have a lot of weight,,,
It's not the OP that was in potential danger but the child as well.

But again, arm chair quarterbacking is futile.

Personally I believe the OP did the right thing,,,
If I and my young daughter were in the same position,,,
I would probably have pulled a handgun and let the jury decide.

Aarond
 
I am now looking at pocket holsters for the LC9 I am going to buy Monday.

Anyone else ever use an ankle holster for their BUG? I would like to hear your thoughts.
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If the only gun you have is the one on your ankle, it is not a "back up" gun. If you can't access it fairly quickly and smoothly, it isn't especially useful (as you found out).
 
AH.74 said:
If the nutjob advances quickly and strikes the right way, all it takes is one hit and it's all over.
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That is very, VERY unlikey, and not worth pulling a weapon over. It's also why I suggested hand to hand training, and also why relying on a gun as a "defensive tool" is ridiculous. You can only attack, not block, with a gun. Rifles aside.
 
My most used defensive tool is my brain. I am one of those fortunate enough to be able to maintain a cool demenor in hot situations. I will talk my way out if I can. I am in my mid 30's in decent shape, strong, and fairly well trained in hand to hand defense. If a big thug is moving agressively at me after yelling threats you better belive my hand will be on the grip of whichever gun I am carrying. I will give a STOP, STOP NOW, STOP OR I WILL SHOOT YOU. (I have been mistaken for a police officer for the way I yell). If they attack I am going to shoot them till they stop.

Now as far as a pocket holster is concearned they make several that will work. Depends on how big your pockets are. I carry a P64 in my pocket even if my primary carry is at home or in the truck. I live in the land of heat indexes over 110. (Happens to be what it feels like outside as I type this.)
 
That is very, VERY unlikey, and not worth pulling a weapon over.
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It is not the likelyhood of an attack that causes me to Carry, but the stakes involved: all you have and ever will be. Dead is Forever.

If you don't think your life is worth pulling a gun over, fine: it's yours to value, or not, as you see fit.

Not only can one punch be fatal, what, exactly, other than his "good character" would stop someone that would punch you for appearing worried he might hit your door from stopping after one punch? Why nothing at all: he could just as easily beat you down and curb stomp you.

Trust Goblins to exhibit reasonable behavior at your peril, Sir.
 
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