Is the caliber debate over?
- Thread starter DeusComedis
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And now we have the absolute facts presented in graphic truthfulness by a long time expert in shooting sports.
Don't argue with the data. It's on the internet and that makes it true.
I'm on my way down stairs to throw out my 9mm.
since I saw on the internet a few weeks ago that the .380 was the ultimate defense round, and Since the .380 isn't listed here, I can only assume that it's better than all of them.
Don't argue with the data. It's on the internet and that makes it true.
I'm on my way down stairs to throw out my 9mm.
since I saw on the internet a few weeks ago that the .380 was the ultimate defense round, and Since the .380 isn't listed here, I can only assume that it's better than all of them.
Old Bill Dibble
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Don't throw the 9mm away, it might fall in to the wrong hands. I'll PM you a shipping address for safe disposal. You will have to pay shipping but it is a small price to pay. Think of the children...
Shooting me in the head with a ten gauge slug will piss me off just as badly as if I was shot with a 9, a 40, 45, probably even 10.
We have rounds available from short rimfire to the nitro express rounds. Every purpose has an assortment of calibers that are useful, and some that are optimal. With all of the different concerns,benefits and drawbacks, there's no such thing as perfect, it's kind of hard to even think that way for me.
Btw, one of the words that really annoys me is "overkill". People throw that out when someone uses more force than they themselves think is necessary, such as the guy who uses a .223 for deer declaring that the 45-70is "overkill."
Dead is dead, and what matters most is incapacitating a threat. If it's not safe to use a .45 in a crowded mall, then it's not optimal, but it's not "overkill.".
Overkill is a .220 swift on a prairie dog the size of squirrel.
We have rounds available from short rimfire to the nitro express rounds. Every purpose has an assortment of calibers that are useful, and some that are optimal. With all of the different concerns,benefits and drawbacks, there's no such thing as perfect, it's kind of hard to even think that way for me.
Btw, one of the words that really annoys me is "overkill". People throw that out when someone uses more force than they themselves think is necessary, such as the guy who uses a .223 for deer declaring that the 45-70is "overkill."
Dead is dead, and what matters most is incapacitating a threat. If it's not safe to use a .45 in a crowded mall, then it's not optimal, but it's not "overkill.".
Overkill is a .220 swift on a prairie dog the size of squirrel.
IMO Out of the four Auto handgun rounds 9mm,40s&w 357sig & 45acp. The 357sig bests them all out big time. Mostly in 125gr & not the watered down stuff like 1300-1350fps. It should be 1400-1450fps.The 9mm is fine the 40 is better 45 ok not as good as they say & the 357sig is king.
P.S. I forgot the 10mm. The full power 180gr 10mm is also king. Just to low of round count for me & need a big gun also. I will take my sig,226 in 357sig &/0r 40s&w. Feel fine with my CZ75 in 9mm also.
P.S. I forgot the 10mm. The full power 180gr 10mm is also king. Just to low of round count for me & need a big gun also. I will take my sig,226 in 357sig &/0r 40s&w. Feel fine with my CZ75 in 9mm also.
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There are dozens of reasons for me to ignore it. The first and major reason is that the National Rifleman estimates the MSRP to start around $5,000.
I'm absolutely certain that it would make a good defensive handgun, but not a GREAT one. Not at all. It may make a GREAT small game to medium game hunting round, but consider the fact that people holler how lousy the .030 carbine used to work, but now shout about how great the .30 commie works, but how lousy the .327 was, etc, I think that it would be a reasonably good deer hunting gun, not that's up to others to decide
I just love reading the stupid stuff, literally moronic stuff that gun writers throw out. The writer of the article compared it to the .357 maximum. He remarked that it killed a deer DRT. He likes the copper bullets and they are brand new.
I just hate it when people try to sell a product by saying dumb stuff like "boy, that thing blew a pig straight down on it's butt."
To seriously compare a 90-100 grain all copper bullet to a bonded 180 grain in .357 maximum or even a 220+ .44 magnum is the absolute be all and end all of BS.
I'm absolutely certain that it would make a good defensive handgun, but not a GREAT one. Not at all. It may make a GREAT small game to medium game hunting round, but consider the fact that people holler how lousy the .030 carbine used to work, but now shout about how great the .30 commie works, but how lousy the .327 was, etc, I think that it would be a reasonably good deer hunting gun, not that's up to others to decide
I just love reading the stupid stuff, literally moronic stuff that gun writers throw out. The writer of the article compared it to the .357 maximum. He remarked that it killed a deer DRT. He likes the copper bullets and they are brand new.
I just hate it when people try to sell a product by saying dumb stuff like "boy, that thing blew a pig straight down on it's butt."
To seriously compare a 90-100 grain all copper bullet to a bonded 180 grain in .357 maximum or even a 220+ .44 magnum is the absolute be all and end all of BS.
volkstrm said:
I suppose that somewhere, someone has cast a 103 grain bullet for a .45 so they can claim that the 7.5 BRNO has .45 weight, and if you download a .44 far enough you could say that the 7.5 BRNO has .44 power.
But if you have to stretch the boundaries of existing cartridges to unreasonable extremes to justify your new cartridge, it just might be a sign that your new cartridge isn't going to be real popular.
he meant that the gun itself weighed as much as a .45 and was similar in other ways. Not the ammunition.
I've said over and over that velocity and KE are not the same as the measurement of a KE reading from a heavy weight and this is as good an example as you can get. the 30 caliber bullet of half the weight cannot have the same stopping power of a .44 magnum.
Frankly, it would take a moron to walk into grizzly territory with a .30 carbine, or even this thing, rather than a .44 magnum. Do the alaskan game wardens carry an SKS? hell no, common weapons are a .444 marlin carbine or twelve gaughe with magnum slugs. It may take several rounds from a
44 to drop a big grizzly, moose, etc, other heavy game. How many magazines could a person fire trying to punch a big enough hole through a charging grizzly to tear through the heart or spine from the front and put it solidly down in the few seconds it takes for it to cover 100 feet or so?
I've said over and over that velocity and KE are not the same as the measurement of a KE reading from a heavy weight and this is as good an example as you can get. the 30 caliber bullet of half the weight cannot have the same stopping power of a .44 magnum.
Frankly, it would take a moron to walk into grizzly territory with a .30 carbine, or even this thing, rather than a .44 magnum. Do the alaskan game wardens carry an SKS? hell no, common weapons are a .444 marlin carbine or twelve gaughe with magnum slugs. It may take several rounds from a
44 to drop a big grizzly, moose, etc, other heavy game. How many magazines could a person fire trying to punch a big enough hole through a charging grizzly to tear through the heart or spine from the front and put it solidly down in the few seconds it takes for it to cover 100 feet or so?
I got one more caliber to think about the 22,TCM. It looks like it may have the 5.7 beat? It as 300fps over it same weight bullets 40gr. In the 1911 type gun all steel you get 18 rounds in 22,TCM & with the 9mm barrel 17 rounds. Plus you don't have to spent over a 1000.00 buck for the gun. I am not saying that its for me but I would like to shoot it. What say you? Thanks.
If you compare 10MM cartridges to .357 cartridges top to bottom they come out as being very close to each other. Yet the 10MM was sold as "equal" to the .41 magnum - which it can only do at the very top of 10MM and very bottom of .41.
But yes if we are talking boutique cartridges the .460 should be in the conversation as well (200 grain at 2300FPS, 300 grain at 2000 FPS, 395 at 1500FPS). And the .45 Super. And the .40 Super.
I shot it twice out of two different model 1911 Rock Island Armory pistols.
Lots of fun to shoot. Quite a bit of muzzle flash and very little perceived recoil. Less perceived recoil than 9mm Parabellum shot from the same pistol.
But the ammo is expensive and available from a single source. Apart from the fun factor, I have a hard time perceiving a niche for this round to fill.
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