Is the caliber debate over?
- Thread starter DeusComedis
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Best for whom and what?? Opinions vary widely.
Note that the US fought AND WON two world wars with the .45ACP. SO, that argument doesn't go far with me.
Also note the world wide popularity of the 9mm Luger round (and the Mauser 98 rifle) were in large part because the German makers marketed them to the world. And very successfully. The US firearms industry did not focus as heavily on that as Germany did.
Military & police agencies have different criteria and priorities than I do. Those organizations LIKE what is the best, but USE what ever works well enough to suit their needs.
Individual handgun round effectiveness (stopping power, or any other name you give it) is what aids most for individual user survivability. That's why we, as individuals tend to focus on it heavily.
The military does NOT do this. Individual survivability ranks BELOW mission success. Soldiers ARE expendable resources. I'm NOT.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
But what round killed the dead horse? 
Having some data analysis skills, my take is that we do not have the data or methodology to discern small differences between the rounds under consideration, given the confounding of platform and skill of shooter.
So we shout slogans and ancedotes.
Having some data analysis skills, my take is that we do not have the data or methodology to discern small differences between the rounds under consideration, given the confounding of platform and skill of shooter.
So we shout slogans and ancedotes.
I am a big fan of 9 mm. It is what I carry a very high percentage of the time. It is what I shoot best. I have done my research and have concluded that a quality 9 mm HP is sufficient for self-defense. I like that I can carry 10+1 rounds in a light, easily concealed weapon.
With that said, best is a very subjective judgement in auto cartridges, calibers, weapons, or most anything else. Put rounds on target quickly with any service weapon and you probably win. Fail to do that in a self-defense situation with a .454 Cassul and you probably lose. Everything else is just conversation.
The Germans lost using the world's best rounds, 7 and9mm, and using the example of a team of two time losers is fallacy.
The Germans were disarmed for a period, and in the meantime and over many years, those other foreigners made it popular, but get serious, it was American ingenuity that turned a barely adequate mouse gun into a ravening hollow pointed death giving device that still is inferior to the .45. American bred and refined the .45 into a superior artifact capable of nearly unholy destruction. If we hadn't created it, Abracanastiness, the great war God from the depths of the very deepest level of the hell that is worse than any other hell would have dangled it like a ripe plum before the most evil souls in the universe, along with the promise of immortality as long as they spread evil and chaos throughout all of society.
Did you notice that Saddam Hussein wound up being hanged? He was using the nine mm.
The Germans were disarmed for a period, and in the meantime and over many years, those other foreigners made it popular, but get serious, it was American ingenuity that turned a barely adequate mouse gun into a ravening hollow pointed death giving device that still is inferior to the .45. American bred and refined the .45 into a superior artifact capable of nearly unholy destruction. If we hadn't created it, Abracanastiness, the great war God from the depths of the very deepest level of the hell that is worse than any other hell would have dangled it like a ripe plum before the most evil souls in the universe, along with the promise of immortality as long as they spread evil and chaos throughout all of society.
Did you notice that Saddam Hussein wound up being hanged? He was using the nine mm.
FairWarning
New member
Everyone knows 9mm is useless. Just send all of your 9 mils to me, and I'll relieve you of the shame of having a "woman's gun".
There seems to no consensus among rifle shooters as to what is THE cartridge, why should pistol and revolver shooters be any different ? Handgun rounds are not as easy to create wildcats with, hence handgunners rely more on factory ammunition IMHO. In SD only the hits count, caliber is somewhat secondary.
The difference is that we shoot everything from cane toads to Burmese crested elephants with rifles. For the most part semiautomatic cartridges are used for dogs, hogs, dingos, and dorks. You don't normally elk hunt with a 1911. Using anything bigger than a .45/10mm is the top level necessary for a carry weapon.
Anyone can carry anything, and I'm just as happy as I can be if they can safely haul a 29 around. Other than swat or other s special needs shooters, what makes something bigger than these two handgun rounds necessary?
Anyone can carry anything, and I'm just as happy as I can be if they can safely haul a 29 around. Other than swat or other s special needs shooters, what makes something bigger than these two handgun rounds necessary?
Guy in Homer stopped a brown bear with a 10mm. Rumor has it he shot five times. Two hit the bear and stopped it. One hit his foot as he tripped. Hope he's Ok. Another argument for the 9mm. If he had shot his foot with a 9mm it would've bounced off his foot and just bruised it ... 
http://homernews.com/homer-news/loc...njured-in-kachemak-bay-state-park-bear-attack
http://homernews.com/homer-news/loc...njured-in-kachemak-bay-state-park-bear-attack
All of the pontification is useless if you are unable to make solid hits consistently under stress.
The performance of service pistol cartridges is very close in actual shootings. I really have seen no improvement in bullets in the last 30 years. LEO's are still shooting at people a zillion times to get them to stop.
The old school ISP load - 9BPLE is still as effective as it was 30 years ago. Wiz bang bullets just cost more money.
The performance of service pistol cartridges is very close in actual shootings. I really have seen no improvement in bullets in the last 30 years. LEO's are still shooting at people a zillion times to get them to stop.
The old school ISP load - 9BPLE is still as effective as it was 30 years ago. Wiz bang bullets just cost more money.
Will Beararms
New member
Anything coming out of the Federal Government these days is Bravo Sierra. 9mm as good as the .40? More Bravo Sierra. You make the call
Quit reading Internet forums and go shoot a .40. If you can't shoot a Glock or an HK or a Sig or an M&P .40, you're not physically fit enough to be an LEO.
Quit reading Internet forums and go shoot a .40. If you can't shoot a Glock or an HK or a Sig or an M&P .40, you're not physically fit enough to be an LEO.
Will Beararms
New member
LOL. I don't know if it's a thinking man's caliber. It is a violent round that does what it was designed to do and it's only gotten better since I was introduced to it in 1993.
No argument that it is a fine choice. I don't shoot it as well as I do 9 mm, so I generally carry 9 mm. I shoot it enough to be confident carrying it. Whether 9 mm is as good as .40 really doesn't matter much to me. It is perfectly capable of doing what I carry it for. It has been doing that for a while now, and it too has only gotten better. Carry what you like. I am fit enough to carry .40 if I wanted to. Most of us are. Don't be offended if we don't.
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