DonR101395
New member
Last I heard it takes two to tango, therefore it should take two to make the decision
Immigration Threads on TFL.
- Thread starter Al Norris
- Start date
- Status
Last I heard it takes two to tango, therefore it should take two to make the decision
The Bad News:
Yet another standard. We need to go beyond a posters words and delve deep into his heart. But actually we can save time because we have already established he has a harbored prejudice.
The Good News:
There are plenty of other forums that deal in political issues where these subjects can be discussed in a civil manner. This is one: http://www.alipac.us/index.php Their first listed rule is that racialy motivated posts are not allowed.
Second piece of good news is I will hang out there and just save this forum for when I need to debate important issues like Glock VS 1911.
Good gosh applesanity! You recognize that is an off-topic political view on a subject that is banned? Saying it in such a backhanded way that others can't respond without being both OT and starting the discussion up is clever, but should not be exercised on these boards.
That you weren't able to keep your hands off abortion is perhaps your own best point--others won't be able to keep their hands off the immigration debate, even if/when it's banned. If there will always be backhanded comments like that, it's enough to make one want to keep the immigration threads, so one can respond to them properly.
Page 3 seems to be littered with "sensitive" people playing the race card dissecting one sentence made by one individual and putting it under a microscope.
I want to say you're right Antipidas...maybe they do need to be closed on sight. But that just doesn't seem right. That would be letting the PC sensitive close down what you admitted is an important topic these days. It's not right to close a subject because oversensitive people make a lot of noise over it with their "racist" witchhunts.
I want to say you're right Antipidas...maybe they do need to be closed on sight. But that just doesn't seem right. That would be letting the PC sensitive close down what you admitted is an important topic these days. It's not right to close a subject because oversensitive people make a lot of noise over it with their "racist" witchhunts.
...sigh... do not touch the edit key... do not touch the edit key... do not touch the edit key... do not touch the edit key... do not touch the edit key...
I'm hoping that a few of you see why I've become a "little" impatient with these threads...
On the only immigration thread that is currently being replied to, we have a person who has said that statistics prove a genetic disposition... Argghhhh! Do I need to even say that genetics is hard science and that statistics (a mathematical probability but not a causality) alone prove nothing?... let alone a scientific fact?
Having made this observation, I will say that if I see anyone else make a repsonse or even an original posting on abortion, they themselves will be aborted from this forum. Clear?
Why in the hell do you think I haven't commented upon the decision in Gonzales v. Carhart? - Do not answer. It was a purely rhetorical question.
I'm hoping that a few of you see why I've become a "little" impatient with these threads...
On the only immigration thread that is currently being replied to, we have a person who has said that statistics prove a genetic disposition... Argghhhh! Do I need to even say that genetics is hard science and that statistics (a mathematical probability but not a causality) alone prove nothing?... let alone a scientific fact?
Having made this observation, I will say that if I see anyone else make a repsonse or even an original posting on abortion, they themselves will be aborted from this forum. Clear?
Why in the hell do you think I haven't commented upon the decision in Gonzales v. Carhart? - Do not answer. It was a purely rhetorical question.
JuanCarlos
New member
Page 3 seems to be littered with "sensitive" people playing the race card dissecting one sentence made by one individual and putting it under a microscope.
No need to put it under a microscope...it stands out pretty clearly to the naked eye. Granted, he didn't use any particular racial slurs nor did he recommend shooting anybody on sight, which is an improvement over some posts. But I've yet to hear any real argument as to why the percentage of Nashville that's Hispanic (assuming that number is even accurate) is entirely relevant to an illegal immigration discussion.
Are we assuming that all Hispanics are illegal? Are we assuming that having a high percentage of Hispanic population is by itself a bad thing? Because again, all he mentions is the percentage who are Hispanic, and in context it certainly doesn't sound like a neutral statement.
To me, this is an example of the kind of vaguely racist statements that permeate these threads (and others, actually, though sometimes the race changes). madmag is right...he probably wouldn't have worded it the same way. Neither would I. Because really, there's only one reason most people would word it that way.
I think it's pretty obvious that there are a lot of posters here whose problem with illegal immigrants isn't just their legal status. This one statement may or may not be a concrete example...I'll admit that it's possible that it was just an innocent comment that is entirely too easy to take the "wrong" way, and nearly impossible to take the "right" way. You never know. I suppose if we wanted to we could go through the last several illegal immigration threads, and pull up at least a dozen more, from various posters, that are less ambiguous. And dozens more that are equally ambiguous.
And it's not just a matter of "overly sensitive" people being "too PC." There is plenty of actual racism (and general ignorance) here on TFL, and in the firearms enthusiast community in general. Why do you think so many topics have to be forbidden here? Deny it if you want, you're wrong. And if you just don't see it...well, that's interesting to me.
Can I come back for a minute to make a positive suggestion.
Here goes.
I am on many other forums and I have seen them struggle with this same issue. Immigration is a hot topic...period. The only time I have seen forums allow this is the long run is to say no over the line racist remarks allowed, and enforce that rule. That is a rule that can be fairly enforced because over the top is fairly easy to see for most involved. This means you will have some backhanded implied remarks (part of life) from both sides. Civil life is made up of bounties, you cannot control everyones inner thoughts.
If you say I am human therefore I am racist, therefore I cannot post on immigration threads, then you might as well close them all down.
Like we said at the beggining...keep the threads open. Come down hard on racist remarks and race baiting. When a few get hit hard for violating rules then the others will pay attention to proper conduct.
Here goes.
I am on many other forums and I have seen them struggle with this same issue. Immigration is a hot topic...period. The only time I have seen forums allow this is the long run is to say no over the line racist remarks allowed, and enforce that rule. That is a rule that can be fairly enforced because over the top is fairly easy to see for most involved. This means you will have some backhanded implied remarks (part of life) from both sides. Civil life is made up of bounties, you cannot control everyones inner thoughts.
If you say I am human therefore I am racist, therefore I cannot post on immigration threads, then you might as well close them all down.
Like we said at the beggining...keep the threads open. Come down hard on racist remarks and race baiting. When a few get hit hard for violating rules then the others will pay attention to proper conduct.
applesanity
New member
Quoting Antipitas:
Abortions are just as unrelated to guns as illegal immigration. But they can both be legal/ political issues. When talking about abortions, the right to privacy gets brought up.
For comparison, all topics on the "general discussion" forum, on the other hand, "must be firearms related."
As for choosing to talk about abortion, I was trying to provide a possible scenario for future threads around a divisive topic - and how bad it can get. I could just have easily picked "affirmative action," "bush doctrine," or "military-industrial complex" instead. Divisive issues usually don't fare well on forums, no matter the subject. Not a PC thing.
JuanCarlos,
there you go again, putting his statement and mine under a microscope and trying to draw "racism" out of it with long winded psychoanalyzing paragraphs.
To me that's either a cheap shot at the opposition to try to change the subject and put them on the defensive trying to prove they're not "racist" or you're just being plain super sensitive and paranoid.
"racism" is a loaded word and hands you a pretty broad brush to paint everybody with.
That there are people in this world, and on this forum, that just don't like X Y or Z group I won't deny and those people should be dealt with. But you are making a mountain out of a molehill. People are going to have various beliefs, values, frustrations and ideas of how things should be. Trying to paint them with all these PC "isms" doesn't contribute anything to an honest discourse.
Anyway, I've said my peace in this thread already on page 2 and most people in here know my position on the illegal alien and immigration issue already. No need to say anymore.
there you go again, putting his statement and mine under a microscope and trying to draw "racism" out of it with long winded psychoanalyzing paragraphs.
To me that's either a cheap shot at the opposition to try to change the subject and put them on the defensive trying to prove they're not "racist" or you're just being plain super sensitive and paranoid.
"racism" is a loaded word and hands you a pretty broad brush to paint everybody with.
That there are people in this world, and on this forum, that just don't like X Y or Z group I won't deny and those people should be dealt with. But you are making a mountain out of a molehill. People are going to have various beliefs, values, frustrations and ideas of how things should be. Trying to paint them with all these PC "isms" doesn't contribute anything to an honest discourse.
Anyway, I've said my peace in this thread already on page 2 and most people in here know my position on the illegal alien and immigration issue already. No need to say anymore.
Pink elephants don't fit under microscopes. That comment wasn't over-interpreted and psychoanalysed to suggest it maybe might could just possibly be a smidgen of a tiny little bit racist...it was clearly so.
Topic is about illegal immigration. Great.
Dude writes post about the problems illegal cause his area. Great.
Dude caps off post by pointing out the population of hispanics in the area. Back the choo-choo train here, that ain't so great.
Now if he had meant to say that 24% of the population is illegal then it was just a little error in usage but to connect illegal immigration with a complaint about the rising population of hispanics is most certainly an attack on hispanics, not illegals.
Since the vast majority of illegal aliens are from Mexico and adding to that the smaller dose of illegals from other Hispanic countries, and since these illegals are a key part of the massive immigration of Mexicans into America, it seems a reasonable statement. Given those facts 1) a good many if not most of that 24% probably are illegals 2) the fact that this Hispanic population in this Tennessee town (nowhere near the border) is growing indicates a strong influx of these illegals as well as an economic and cultural clash and change. Even a massive influx of poor foreigners of any kind into a community should raise concerns. As I said, it starts to alter the cultural and economic makup of an area.
The people who live down in Mexico are fine people, they are good neighbors of America, but, metaphorically speaking, like any neighbor I wouldn't want him in my house uninvited raiding my fridge, inviting his whole family and extended family over for bar'b'q while playing loud music and watch the football game and getting in the way. I wouldn't want his extended cousins who are junkies with warrants on them coming over for crack parties uninvited while I'm out of town. Mexico has strict laws about what kind of and how many immigrants come into their country, all countries in the world do. Why should we feel any different.
Nothing racist about this.
The people who live down in Mexico are fine people, they are good neighbors of America, but, metaphorically speaking, like any neighbor I wouldn't want him in my house uninvited raiding my fridge, inviting his whole family and extended family over for bar'b'q while playing loud music and watch the football game and getting in the way. I wouldn't want his extended cousins who are junkies with warrants on them coming over for crack parties uninvited while I'm out of town. Mexico has strict laws about what kind of and how many immigrants come into their country, all countries in the world do. Why should we feel any different.
Nothing racist about this.
UH1-D Rotorhead
Moderator
Nothing wrong with a change in the cultural makeup of a community. It's what makes America great.
UH1-D Rotorhead
Moderator
That's true Stage, but that is not what America is all about...Borneo, Iraq, Afghanistan, India, et al, maybe, but not America. This great land of ours should not remotely be associated with ethnic cleansing, xenophobia, mass deportations and jailings of human beings solely based on their so called "undocumented" status...we are way better than that, and that's what seperates us from the rest of the world. If the Native American had to live with the change, so should the rest of us. (wink).
Okay, Rotorhead (and JuanCarlos and Redworm) if you think America is a "proposition nation" or "land of immigrants" that's your belief. You're entitled to it!
BUT
I don't agree. Apparently Stage 2 doesn't agree either. That's my belief and his too. We are entitled to it Leave the rest of us who don't agree with you to our beliefs without labeling us "racists" or "xenophobes" or "ethnic cleansers" etc.
That's the whole point I've been making this entire thread.
BUT
I don't agree. Apparently Stage 2 doesn't agree either. That's my belief and his too. We are entitled to it Leave the rest of us who don't agree with you to our beliefs without labeling us "racists" or "xenophobes" or "ethnic cleansers" etc.
That's the whole point I've been making this entire thread.
UH1-D Rotorhead
Moderator
OK Doug...maybe it's my age and failing eye site, but I most certainly don't see anywhere you and your bud were labeled racists...what's up with that? Am I missing something here?
Rotorhead
You implied that anybody that doesn't agree with you that "america is all about cultural change" and "america is different from other countries" or in a nutshell the whole "proposition nation/land of immigrants" belief is somehow a racist or a xenophobe.
That's absurd. A lot of it has to do with common sense. However, granting that you are right, that just makes me wrong in my statement not racist. (another attempt at race card playing)
*Sigh*
I'm getting out of this discussion before I get myself booted from the forum for cursing somebodies out.
Antipidas, these people are beyond reason. Close all immigration threads from now on. That's my vote
You implied that anybody that doesn't agree with you that "america is all about cultural change" and "america is different from other countries" or in a nutshell the whole "proposition nation/land of immigrants" belief is somehow a racist or a xenophobe.
Redworm
That's absurd. A lot of it has to do with common sense. However, granting that you are right, that just makes me wrong in my statement not racist. (another attempt at race card playing)
*Sigh*
I'm getting out of this discussion before I get myself booted from the forum for cursing somebodies out.
Antipidas, these people are beyond reason. Close all immigration threads from now on. That's my vote
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UH1-D Rotorhead
Moderator
I didn't imply that....you put that in your mind...it is how you view others with an opposing view...think man...think... And Doug, why do you feel the need to have to curse someone out? What's with all the rage? I don't feel one nanogram of hostility towards anyone here...whether they agree with what I am suggesting or not, yet, you feel this overwhelming need to wreak havoc and mayhem on the opposition...again...what's up with that?
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