I'm SO SICK of this illegal alien situation!

[DasBoot]

So basically your statement makes no logical sense. Unless, of course, by "'em all" you really just mean the few you're comfortable letting in. How progressive of you.

I guess I too have to spoon feed ya!
Think "SARCASM!"
I really don't care who can, or cannot, gain entry into this country.
America is open for everyone as long as (listen carefully here)....you follow the immigration rules and regulations and do it the same way most of our families did, by respecting our laws!

Yes, because I'm sure most of the people posting here had to work so hard for their citizenship. I know I sure did have to work hard for mine. It involved clawing my way tooth and nail out of a vagina...wow. Go me. Yeah, we might have a couple naturalized citizens engaging in this debate (but I'm guessing none from Mexico or points south), but nearly all the of the people I've heard argue to keep the status quo had to go through the herculean effort of being born to earn their place here.

How lame!
So the ONLY people that are allowed to want immigration laws followed have to be recent immigrants themselves?!?!?!?
I guess only those of us that have children are the only ones allowed to want strict child predator laws too!

Because it shows that where you were was once a Spanish speaking area, and may have been (though I'm not sure) a bilingual area ever since, just like the Southwest.

This is relevant how???
Perhaps I should be walking around in 80lbs of Conquistador armor also!
Who cares?
It has nothing to do with the present day situation.

However, I do agree that it's pretty darn silly to have Spanish as the "primary" language when your area is not predominantly Spanish-speaking (and not even close). Which it doesn't appear to be.

THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
That has been my whole point from the start of this thread!
I've told you my wife is Hispanic.
We are teaching our son Spanish bit by bit.
I LOVE Latin food, music and culture.
We were even going to have a Mariachi band at our wedding, but they never showed up.
INS maybe!
Just come here legally.
Respect our laws.
And don't put English on the back burner.
You don't respect what you don't earn.
Being born here here, I learned to respect it from my parents and from traveling around the world.
And besides, it doesn't take much to love and respect the land of your birth.
Unless your parents are illegal and have you trying to work the system from day one.

 

[Redworm]

And don't put English on the back burner.
You don't respect what you don't earn.

Language evolves as culture evolves. If by the end of the century 60% of the population is hispanic instead of white why shouldn't the language of the predominant people take over?

And your second line is just plain counterintuitive. You didn't earn your citizenship but you said you learned to respect it.

 

[STAGE 2]

So I say that your crime caused by illegal immigrants (in addition to crime caused by legals) isn't that much worse that the crime found in any other comparable (in size) US city. You respond with the whole "that's because you're not here man...you just don't know." At which point I decided to verify what I already knew, that the San Diego area's crime stats are lower than other comparable cities with less illegals.

So it's not about spoon feeding, it's about you changing what you're claiming to say.

Really, it looks to me like you should thank the illegals...all that Spanish being spoken seems to be scaring all the really scary criminals that inhabit every other city. (Yes, this is sarcasm...mostly)

So if I get this straight, because the overall crime rate in San Diego is lower than other comparative cities, it doesn't really matter that these crimes are being comitted by illegals. That IS what you are saying right?

Bottom line, the number of crimes comitted by illegals has risen at a much higher rate over the last 10 years than the overall crime rate itself. This is a direct result of the increase in illegal immigration. I don't really care what the stats are in other cities because that is wholly irrelevant to what is happening here.

 

[JuanCarlos]

And your second line is just plain counterintuitive. You didn't earn your citizenship but you said you learned to respect it.

Yeah, this amuses me to. The very same people who complain about a sense of "entitlement" when addressing things like welfare seem to have a profound sense of it when it comes to citizenship...they've done about as much to earn it as a welfare recipient has done to earn their check; namely, be born here.

I really don't care who can, or cannot, gain entry into this country.
America is open for everyone as long as (listen carefully here)....you follow the immigration rules and regulations and do it the same way most of our families did, by respecting our laws!

Depends how you define "the same way." When my family(ies) came over, they certainly didn't have to deal with anything resembling what today's Mexicans (or anybody else, for that matter) has to. The rules back then were pretty much "show up." And maybe "don't be incredibly diseased."

And I'm all for holding today's Mexicans to the same standard.

So if I get this straight, because the overall crime rate in San Diego is lower than other comparative cities, it doesn't really matter that these crimes are being comitted by illegals. That IS what you are saying right?

Pretty much. Crime will be committed either way, I don't really care who is committing it. If there weren't a bunch of Mexicans there, a bunch of blacks would move down and commit crimes. If they didn't bother, a bunch of white trash would do the same. Or do you think a city the size of San Diego would be a crime-free utopia if it wasn't for all the darn Mexicans? Or would it just make you feel better if your city's criminals spoke English?

And the percent of criminals who are illegal doesn't matter as much to me as the percentage of illegals who are criminals (again, discounting immigration-related law). I also firmly believe there would be less crime committed by Mexican immigrants if they were allowed in legally.

 

[CobrayCommando]

If there weren't a bunch of Mexicans there, a bunch of blacks would move down and commit crimes. If they didn't bother, a bunch of white trash would do the same.

WTF? That doesn't even make sense. There is not some agreed upon "crime quota" in cities. Why bother jailing prisoners if a "bunch of blacks" will move to that city and start commiting crimes?

 

[STAGE 2]

Depends how you define "the same way." When my family(ies) came over, they certainly didn't have to deal with anything resembling what today's Mexicans (or anybody else, for that matter) has to. The rules back then were pretty much "show up." And maybe "don't be incredibly diseased."

And I'm all for holding today's Mexicans to the same standard.

Simple question. Does a sovereign nation reserve a right to determine who and who does not enter its borders.

 

[DasBoot]

If by the end of the century 60% of the population is hispanic instead of white why shouldn't the language of the predominant people take over?

So only whites speak English here?
Is this about race to you?
And again, irrelevant!
At this point in time, the main language of the United States is English.
Has been for several hundred years.
We are not a Spanish nation.

And your second line is just plain counterintuitive. You didn't earn your citizenship but you said you learned to respect it

Being born here here, I learned to respect it from my parents and from traveling around the world.
And besides, it doesn't take much to love and respect the land of your birth.
Unless your parents are illegal and have you trying to work the system from day one.

Pretty self explanatory.
I was born of parents that came here LEGALLY.

Just come here legally.
Respect our laws.

From your posts I get the feeling that you don't have any problem with illegal aliens, from anywhere, coming into America and abusing our system.
Am I wrong?
Are you in favor of multi-language signs everywhere you look.
Redworm,
Are you in favor of illegal immigration?

 

[JuanCarlos]

WTF? That doesn't even make sense. There is not some agreed upon "crime quota" in cities.

Actually, to an extent there is. I'd wager it's largely fueled by drug trade and economics, though. Get a million people together, you'll have a certain level of demand for illicit drugs. Somebody will move in to supply it, whether Mexican, black, or white. At which point they'll bring an array of other criminal elements along, because a black market for illicit substances tends to do that.

That, and if police presence brings property crime down below a certain level, people no longer want to pay taxes for the same level of presence...leading criminals to show up, people to clamor for more police presence, lather rinse and repeat.

No, it's not "agreed upon." Yes, it's influenced by other socioeconomic factors. And you can't sit down with a slide rule and figure out exactly what the rate. But there will always be a certain level of crime in any city...and if nobody locally is committing it, somebody will show up to.

At least, that seems to make sense to me. Then again, I'm posting while intoxicated right now.

 

[CobrayCommando]

I see what you're saying, I just think its doubtful that if we stopped jailing dealers their numbers would stay about the same. I think the price of drugs would just drop drastically and there would be 5 dealers on every street.

 

[JuanCarlos]

At this point in time, the main language of the United States is English.
Has been for several hundred years.
We are not a Spanish nation.

In some parts it has been for several hundred. In others, a couple hundred. In a few, as little as a hundred. We are not one huge homogeneous nation. And as I've stated repeatedly, the southwestern US has never been a monolingual English-speaking area. Ever.

Are you in favor of multi-language signs everywhere you look.

Can't speak for Redworm, but as long as English is still on there it doesn't really bother me. I don't consider myself or my language to be that special.

Simple question. Does a sovereign nation reserve a right to determine who and who does not enter its borders.

In general, yes. However, I feel that at some point the laws we use to determine that here were manipulated so as to undermine the values our country was founded on. So no, I don't feel bad seeing those laws violated. Because I'm a big fan of the values this country was founded on, more so than blind adherence to the law.

 

[DasBoot]

Depends how you define "the same way."

My GOD!
This is like talking to a rock!!
"The same way" means L-E-G-A-L-L-Y!
What ever the laws are at the time, they are to be followed.
What is it about that you are having difficulty with?

The rules back then were pretty much "show up." And maybe "don't be incredibly diseased."

And that's plain BS!
Speaking of my family, I had an uncle turned away AT Ellis Island because he was missing half a finger and was considered unfit to work.
Examinations were conducted on the island, and if anything wasn't right, you went back.
He was sent back to Scotland.
You also had to be sponsored.
Someone had to take responsibility for you and your actions before you were allowed to set foot here.
So don't cry about how difficult it is for the poor Mexicans to get in here.
Let's let millions of illiterate, unskilled people into the USA.
Won't that be good for the nation!

Does a sovereign nation reserve a right to determine who and who does not enter its borders.

Today 07:36 PM
Ditto that question.
Once again, obey our laws and you are welcome.
And let's not forget the little matter of people that want to blow things up getting in here also.
Yeah, let's make it really easy to get into the USA.

 

[Redworm]

So only whites speak English here?
Is this about race to you?
And again, irrelevant!
At this point in time, the main language of the United States is English.
Has been for several hundred years.
We are not a Spanish nation.

Of course not. The point is that in many years time the population of America may be predominantly hispanic and thus it makes sense that Spanish would be the more common language. I'm perfectly ok with that. Cultures evolve. There's nothing special about the English language that makes it necessary to keep.

We are not a Spanish nation nor are we an English nation. If anything we're an American nation because we most certainly do not speak true English. We did at one point and as the culture evolved so did the language. For all we know by the end of the century people will speak a new language that combines both American English and Spanish. The point is that you're freaking out for no reason at all about the language issue. If you want to talk about illegal immigration then talk about illegal immigration but the culture issue is irrelevant because the exact same thing would be happening if every single one of those immigrants were legal.

Pretty self explanatory.
I was born of parents that came here LEGALLY.

That doesn't change what you said. You said you don't respect what you don't earn and your citizenship was granted to you by birth, nothing more. Your parents may have earned it for you but that still doesn't mean you earned it. Yet I have no doubt you still respect thus you can respect something you have not earned.

From your posts I get the feeling that you don't have any problem with illegal aliens, from anywhere, coming into America and abusing our system.
Am I wrong?
Are you in favor of multi-language signs everywhere you look.
Redworm,
Are you in favor of illegal immigration?

I have a big problem with illegal immigration, which is why it should be easier. Your parents had a much easier time coming here through the proper channels than todays immigrants.

I have zero problem with immigration in general. I don't mind mult-language signs everywhere, not one bit.

 

[Redworm]

Simple question. Does a sovereign nation reserve a right to determine who and who does not enter its borders.

Abso-frakin-lutely. Thus the best way for this sovereign nation to keep control of that is to make sure those who want to come here to work and live are able to while the few that want to come here to commit crime and "terrorize" cannot hide amongst the rest. Best way to do that is to simplify the immigration process.

 

[JuanCarlos]

What ever the laws are at the time, they are to be followed.

Yeah, those slaves should totally not have been trying to run away. Laws of the time, dontcha know.

That doesn't change what you said. You said you don't respect what you don't earn and your citizenship was granted to you by birth, nothing more. Your parents may have earned it for you but that still doesn't mean you earned it. Yet I have no doubt you still respect thus you can respect something you have not earned.

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

 

[DasBoot]

We are not a Spanish nation nor are we an English nation. If anything we're an American nation because we most certainly do not speak true English.

You are going to dance around this and parse words any way you can, but again, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, the dominant language of the United States is ENGLISH.
And until there is a massive demographic change in our nation, English is the way we communicate.
No matter what corner of the globe you come from, learning English is part of becoming an American.

Yet I have no doubt you still respect thus you can respect something you have not earned.

In a broader sense, you are correct.
I did not earn the 1960 Falcon Stationwagon my uncle left me, but I sure as hell love and respect it.
Sorry!
Wrong choice of words.
But that is a "thing".
Are you as careful with a rental car as you are with your own?
Are you a little more messy in a hotel room than you are in your own house?
If scores and scores of people are given a free membership to a very nice gym, do you really think they are going to take as much care of the place than if they had to pay $1500 a year in membership fees?
That's what I "thought" I conveyed.
In general, it's human nature not to to care for something AS WELL as you would if you either own it or earned it.
Been to any public housing lately?

I have a big problem with illegal immigration, which is why it should be easier

Until that happens, follow the rules as they are.
So you agree that people should be stopped from entering this country illegally?

I don't mind mult-language signs everywhere, not one bit.

I your mind, how many languages should we honor before it becomes too? much?

 

[STAGE 2]

In general, yes. However, I feel that at some point the laws we use to determine that here were manipulated so as to undermine the values our country was founded on. So no, I don't feel bad seeing those laws violated. Because I'm a big fan of the values this country was founded on, more so than blind adherence to the law.

So your answer without all the fuff is no. Either a nation should be able to regulate who comes in or they can't. There isn't any middle ground and there isn't any "manipulation". Our immigration laws were passed according to the provisions set forth in the constitution. They are valid.

As for the values this country was founded on, I'm pretty sure if the framers didn't feel that blacks were even entitled to freedom, they surely didn't intend mexicans to have citizenship or any of the benefits associated with it.

 

[DasBoot]

Thus the best way for this sovereign nation to keep control of that is to make sure those who want to come here to work and live are able to while the few that want to come here to commit crime and "terrorize" cannot hide amongst the rest. Best way to do that is to simplify the immigration process

.
I suppose they put "CRIMINAL" or "TERRORIST" on their application?

Yeah, those slaves should totally not have been trying to run away. Laws of the time, dontcha know.

How old are you man?
That's perfect reasoning for a 12yr old!
So what is your point in that remark?
Laws should NOT be followed?
You're working awful hard to twist things around here.

 

[DasBoot]

In general, yes. However, I feel that at some point the laws we use to determine that here were manipulated so as to undermine the values our country was founded on. So no, I don't feel bad seeing those laws violated. Because I'm a big fan of the values this country was founded on, more so than blind adherence to the law.

Where was this posted?

 

[JuanCarlos]

Laws should NOT be followed?

Unjust laws, of course not.

Is this such a case? Maybe, maybe not. The laws are certainly constitutional (compared to, say, segregation a hundred years ago)...but I don't consider them particularly American.

Personally, my moral compass is not calibrated simply by "legal" and "illegal." I believe there have been in the past, and are now, absolutely unjust laws, the observance of which benefits nobody.

How old are you man?
That's perfect reasoning for a 12yr old!

No, it isn't 12-year-old reasoning. Your "legal=good, illegal=bad" level or reasoning is more suited to a 12-year-old. No, illegal immigration is not analogous (at least certainly not directly analogous) to the civil disobedience of, say, blacks during the civil rights movement. But the level of reasoning you're using that "it's the law, it must be followed, period" is asinine. If the people who founded this country had followed the law, there would be no United States...we'd still be colonies of Britain (or Spain, or wherever...depending where you live and how history would have shaken out).

You are going to dance around this and parse words any way you can, but again, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, the dominant language of the United States is ENGLISH.

At this time, in the nation as a whole, yes. In certain parts of this nation, no. And the trend is that English is becoming less dominant.

P.S. 27 years old, if you're wondering. Engineering student, and Iraq veteran. Lived in every region of the country except the South. Married, no children. Like kittens and moonlit walks on the beach.

EDIT: I also, of course, enjoy firearms...hence the reason I pop in here. I know darn well I don't have much else in common with many (most) of ya'll.

Oh, and I don't feel I need anybody's "support." I have my own opinions and stances, and don't need anybody else's approval. People are free to agree or disagree with them, in whole or in part.

 

[CobrayCommando]

Unjust laws, of course not.

You just lost the support of Wildalaska!

Welcome....