I'm SO SICK of this illegal alien situation!

[JuanCarlos]

I don't think that illegal immigrant crime in San Diego is that much worse than other inner-city crime in other areas. Just the color ot he person committing them.

Thats because you don't work here or live here. You haven't been to the DA's office or paid a visit to Otay Mesa or San Ysidro, or talked with the BP officers that patrol the border. What you "think" and .05 will get you a cup of coffee.

No, that's because I've looked at the crime statistics of San Diego compared to other similarly sized US cities that are far, far away from the border. Yeah, everything's worse when it happens to you or in your city. Everybody thinks their city has worse crime than anywhere else. And almost everybody is wrong. In fact, good luck finding similarly sized cities/metros with less per-capita crime than San Diego. I imagine there might be a couple, but I didn't run across them in my brief search. I suggest www.city-data.com as a start. And no, finding one does not make you "win" on that one...especially if it's only slightly lower.

Again, I listen to logic and reason, not scaremongering.

P.S. I've actually been to San Diego, though no I've not lived or worked there. Spent a couple months in LA, too. And Sacramento. And 5 years living, working, and going to school in Phoenix. And six months in El Paso.

I'd like to make a few points:

I live in Massachusetts. I would like to stop the influx of Democrats but, because they DO know the language, it's hard to spot them until it's too late (they can be sneaky).

The U.S. has a national bird, national anthem, etc., but no national language. Canada has two.

My grandfather was a full Native American. He wants you all to go back where you came from.

My grandfather was only half, but he'd probably agree. And nobody cared much for my Irish great-great-grandparents (might actually be another great on there, not sure right now) when they came over, either. Now they all love St. Patrick's Day because it gives them an excuse to drink.

I'll not be surprised if Cinco De Mayo gets the same treatment in 50 years. Heck, it's already happening in all the cities down by the border...it's not just Mexicans celebrating, from what I've seen.

The middle-class is dying in America in part due to corporate greed and the huge numbers of illegals, & outsourcing along with the loss of manufacturing plants.

Actually, that's mostly just corporate greed and outsourcing (which is of course related to manufacturing plants). Illegal immigration, according to every non-biased measure I've seen, has either no real measurable impact on the middle class, or a small net positive. The only group it really hurts is the working poor/lower class, and people who are deeply offended by having to press "1."

I suggest The Wall Street Journal for further info. Or you could delve deeper if you really want to.

 

[DasBoot]

I pulled into a Chevron station around the corner from my house the other night.
While pumping gas I glanced at the signage alongside each pump.
I was momentarily engrossed in the sign when I suddenly realized "I'M TRYING TO TRANSLATE THE SPANISH TO ENGLISH!"
The dominant wording was in Spanish, with a little English explanation below each paragraph!
It should be the other way around don't you think!
MAN did that piss me off!
I'm mean, Coral Springs, Florida IS NOT a Spanish area!
WHy should I have to LOOK for the English on signs in my own neighborhood.
When I pointed this out to others at the pumps, they got quite annoyed also.
I proceeded to write to Chevron voicing my/our objections to the "Spanish first" signage and advised them that I, along with the others I spoke to, would NOT patronize Chevron again until they remember what country they are in and what the prevailing language of this country is.
I also told them that I have no problem with them attempting to reachout to their Spanish speaking customers, but don't make your English speaking base feel like the foreigners!
I actually got a reply yesterday, asking for the exact address of the station.
I e-mailed that to them today along with a request to know who has the final say as to how the signage is to appear so I can ask him/her why they are puting Spanish in a dominant position on their signs.
This might well be wasted energy on my part.
But you know what, AT LEAST I'M TAKING SOME SORT OF STAND!
It's disgusting reading how so and so(I can't scroll back to his/her name) thinks "they should ALL be allowed in" just so he can profit from it!
Money trumps our way of life in his world!
That's PRECISELY the attitude that has allowed this problem to grow into the monster it is today.
"It's not MY problem! Let the INS do it!"
EVERY American should do SOMETHING, in their own small way, to combat this.
If you see your neighbors house being burgled, "Hey! That's the police' job.
I'm not gonna say a thing.
That's THEIR problem."
How long before you're hangin' a Mexican flag over your booth, just to further boost your profits?!!
And I don't expect us to proof every latino.
It's just the dispicable attitude of 'Screw the rest of the country. I'm gonna sell more auto parts!"
"So what if they burden hospital facilities, get free tuition when I have to pay, drive without insurance so I'm left out in the cold after an accident, live in large numbers in small apartments/houses and use the backyard as a toilet, get welfare that the American taxpayer pays for, etc, etc etc!
As long as there is a profit to be made, I'm all for it!"
Anyone interested can get in touch with Chevron at "comment@chevron.com."
Enough voices might just make them think a bit.And if not at least you opened your mouth and did SOMETHING!
You just gotta have, er, "cojones!".

 

[Redworm]

The illegals, most of them have no interest in becoming citizens even if it were offered to them.

Folks keep saying that as if they actually had some evidence to suggest it was anywhere close to the truth.

They want us to cater to them and they want us to adapt to thier culture, not the other way around. Mexico is being thrown in our faces, thats what pisses me off. Did you not see the massive protests last year, the American flags being yanked down and stomped on and replaced with a mexican flag on FEDERAL GOVERNMENT property?

No, "they" don't want us to cater to them and adopt their culture. They would like to keep their own culture as every other group of immigrants has done. Those protestors do not represent the entirety of the Mexican population nor even the illegal population.

My grandfather was a full Native American. He wants you all to go back where you came from.

LOL yes

we should give all the land back to the natives just to see the looks on their faces

 

[Redworm]

I pulled into a Chevron station around the corner from my house the other night.
While pumping gas I glanced at the signage alongside each pump.
I was momentarily engrossed in the sign when I suddenly realized "I'M TRYING TO TRANSLATE THE SPANISH TO ENGLISH!"
The dominant wording was in Spanish, with a little English explanation below each paragraph!
It should be the other way around don't you think!

No, it's a private business and they can cater to whoever they please. If you don't like it, get gas somewhere else.

MAN did that piss me off!
I'm mean, Coral Springs, Florida IS NOT a Spanish area!

Where do you think the word "Florida" comes from? Have we forgotten our history lessons that mentioned the first city in what is now the US was settled by Spaniards? Have we forgotten that most of the state was Spanish controlled territory until the English colonists gave firearms to the natives to do their dirty work for them?

EVERY American should do SOMETHING, in their own small way, to combat this.

I disagree because I don't believe we're combatting anything. What you're arguing about is not illegal immigration, you're arguing about another culture influencing the nation around you. The former is a problem and the best way to fix that is the methods JuanCarlos suggested. The latter, on the other hand, is just irrational fear and a dislike of a culture not your own.


For all of you that despise the idea of another culture evolving the American culture: the next time you listen to your favorite classis rock station, thank a black man because it was the culture of his ancestors that gave birth to that style of music. The next time you have dinner at Olive Garden, thank an Italian. The next time you have a beer, thank a German.

 

[DonR101395]

My grandfather was a full Native American. He wants you all to go back where you came from.

Unless he's talking about me going back to Michigan, I am where I came from, and my family got here legally.

 

[sixshooterjunction]

JC, you appear to be an intelligent, articulate individual with a probing, analytical mind. Your research skills and fact recall are superb. If I may, I suggest that you have more consideration for the concerns of other posters that run contrary to your opinions. Your oratory and voluminous statistics have an edge to them that seem to stir up alienation on the subject rather than cogitation. We as a country need more concensus building leaders on this contentious issue to mend the growing tears in our social fabric. Debate is important and needed. However, as with all things in life, moderation and balance is the key to progress and prosperity. The people-all the people-need and want to be heard. Marginalizing some and advancing others runs contrary to the founding principles of our great country. The great debate at the turn of the 20th century between W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington centered on whether DuBois' agitate model or Washington's educate/cultural change model would be best for blacks to overall advance their socioeconomic status. According to author Dinesh Dhingra, other-than-black minorities entering this country and employing the Washington model fare far better in nearly every facet of lifestyle. The point here is the importance of education, understanding the cultural dynamics of all involved, inclusion of differing opinions, and the guts to make it all work together for our country's sake. Speaking of our country which was largely founded on the belief of religious freedoms, I've not seen or heard mention of an entity that could help us all solve this issue and many more - God. "...with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26. No matter your religious beliefs, let's use every available resource. Prayer does work, God DOES listen and He works on his own schedule. Lastly, my apologies to you or others if my comments were offensive. I just wanted to offer a different perpspective. God bless America.

 

[9mmsnoopy]

"No, "they" don't want us to cater to them and adopt their culture. They would like to keep their own culture as every other group of immigrants has done. Those protestors do not represent the entirety of the Mexican population nor even the illegal population."



I beg to differ. Nobody is saying that you must forget where you came from, thats not the issue.

I have never seen an immigrant from Vietnam or (insert your country of choice here) yanking down an American flag and stomping all over it, they dont plaster foriegn flags all over thier vehicles either. These people assimilate themselves into American society and culture.

When one becomes an American citizen, you renounce your loyalty to whatever country you came from.

You think the vast majority of the illegals from mexico are going to do that? Nope.

The USA national soccer team played the Mexican national team a couple years ago in Houston. Which team do you think had the home field advantage? Had the most fans?

The Houston school district is hiring teachers directly out of mexico in order to educate the children of those ILLEGALS who speak little to no english.

Isnt that just fantastic! Those jobs should be going to Americans, its going to get to where if you cant speak spanish you cant get a decent job.

 

[badbob]

I must be missing something. Aren't immigration quotas about allowing enough people into the country, legally, that can build the workforce without overburdening the economy? I don't think anybody is saying "Stay out", they are saying "Use the front door". Nobody can seriously believe that illegal, uncontroled immigration can benefit our country. There are only so many jobs,and our hospitals and schools can only absorb a limited number in a given amount of time without the quality of service declining, hurting everybody.

badbob

 

[pohill]

What bugs me is that people cannot walk off the street into my gunclub, gym, etc without becoming a member, yet they can come into my country without becoming a "member" and reap all the benefits. If they want to become tax paying citizens, then go about it the right way. I have kids in college out of state that do not get in-state tuition rates, but here in MA they want to give illegal aliens in-state tuition rates, drivers license, etc. Yeah, there goes the cost of car insurance even higher. It's not right. Come here legally, pay taxes, fine...otherwise, stay away.

 

[Redworm]

I beg to differ. Nobody is saying that you must forget where you came from, thats not the issue.

I have never seen an immigrant from Vietnam or (insert your country of choice here) yanking down an American flag and stomping all over it, they dont plaster foriegn flags all over thier vehicles either. These people assimilate themselves into American society and culture.

There is no evidence to suggest that those protestors represent anyone but themselves. There's no reason to purport that those protestors represent the vast majority of Mexican immigrants or even the illegal ones.

When one becomes an American citizen, you renounce your loyalty to whatever country you came from.

Well what about if you become a resident to come here and work or study? If you moved to Germany because your company needed you to would you renounce your loyalty to America for the few years you lived there?

You think the vast majority of the illegals from mexico are going to do that? Nope.

We know this how?

The USA national soccer team played the Mexican national team a couple years ago in Houston. Which team do you think had the home field advantage? Had the most fans?

So?

The Houston school district is hiring teachers directly out of mexico in order to educate the children of those ILLEGALS who speak little to no english.

No, in order to educate the children of hispanics. The school district would do the same thing if they were all legal. That being said, do you know how many kids in public school are actually illegal? Ever consider the fact that those kids were born on American soil and thus deserve every benefit you and I take for granted?

Isnt that just fantastic! Those jobs should be going to Americans, its going to get to where if you cant speak spanish you cant get a decent job.

No, the jobs should be going to the people that do the job the best. Americans with bad spanish accents are less likely to do a decent job of teaching spanish speaking kids as a native speaker.

And no, it's never going to get to that point because this country is large enough and filled with enough people of various ethnicities that numerous languages will always remain. Now I do understand that it is getting harder to get a job if you're not bilingual but that's really too bad. If I own a company and I want to cater to both english and spanish speaking populations then I'm going to hire bilingual speakers. Simple as that. If I own a company that caters to Arabs then I'm going to hire bilingual speakers of Arabic or Farsi.

 

[DonR101395]

Well what about if you become a resident to come here and work or study? If you moved to Germany because your company needed you to would you renounce your loyalty to America for the few years you lived there?

Wrong argument, you're trying to equate residency with citizenship. The two are different. Both have a legal process you complete. We are talking about illegal residents. If they want to apply for a work visa and go through the legal process more power to them, but instead they come through the back door illegally.

No, in order to educate the children of hispanics. The school district would do the same thing if they were all legal. That being said, do you know how many kids in public school are actually illegal? Ever consider the fact that those kids were born on American soil and thus deserve every benefit you and I take for granted?

The difference is, if they were legel their parents would be paying taxes to offset the cost of the extra staff to educate their kids.
As far as being born here and being citizens, it wrong and a legal loophole. You can't reap the benefits for any other crime. If they parents are here illegally, their kids should be citizens of whatever country the parents originate.

 

[Redworm]

Wrong argument, you're trying to equate residency with citizenship. The two are different. Both have a legal process you complete. We are talking about illegal residents. If they want to apply for a work visa and go through the legal process more power to them, but instead they come through the back door illegally.

Then why was it brought up in the first place? He was the one that said those who become citizens of America must give up loyalty to any other country. He mentions that as if every Mexican that comes here to work should not be flying a Mexican flag. This is as much about people being intolerant of a culture as it is worrying about the real problems of illegal immigration.

Yeah, the come in through the back door. So make it easier to come in through the front door and we'll have better luck at keeping out the criminals and terrorists that we don't want. Instead the culture warriors are bitching about signs in spanish and having to push 2 when calling Dell as if those are a problem of illegal immigration. They're not. The only things those arguments serve to do is make it harder to solve the problem.

The only problem is that people are coming here without being traceable and using services without paying taxes. Make the legal immigration process far easier and you'll have the majority of them tracked and you'll be able to tax them. The idea that stopping all immigration is going to solve anything is illogical at best and counterproductive at worst.

 

[DonR101395]

So make it easier to come in through the front door and we'll have better luck at keeping out the criminals and terrorists that we don't want.

Nothing worth having is easy to attain.

The idea that stopping all immigration is going to solve anything is illogical at best and counterproductive at worst.

Nobody said stop all immigration. There is a system and they need to use it. No kidding it's difficult, it took 15 years to get citizenship for my daughter, but we used the legal system to get it done.

He was the one that said those who become citizens of America must give up loyalty to any other country.

He is talking about illegals coming here and flying Mexico's flag, taking flags down from U.S. government building and replacing the U.S. flag with Mexican flags then threatening violence to anyone who removes it. If Mexico is such a great place stay there. I have no issue with being proud of your heritage, but I draw the line when you commit crimes in the name of your heritage.

Instead the culture warriors are bitching about signs in spanish and having to push 2 when calling Dell as if those are a problem of illegal immigration.

Those things are a direct result of illegal immigration and the PC response of businesses not wanting to rock the boat. I'm retiring from my first career in the next year and I can tell you that my new business will be an English speaking business. If I hire someone who is bi-lingual it won't be because they were bi-lingual it will be because they can do the job. Will it cost me business, probably, do I care, not really.

 

[WeedWacker]

Those things are a direct result of illegal immigration and the PC response of businesses not wanting to rock the boat. I'm retiring from my first career in the next year and I can tell you that my new business will be an English speaking business. If I hire someone who is bi-lingual it won't be because they were bi-lingual it will be because they can do the job. Will it cost me business, probably, do I care, not really.

 

[DasBoot]

No, it's a private business and they can cater to whoever they please. If you don't like it, get gas somewhere else.

Did you miss the part about my NOT using Chevron anymore?

So make it easier to come in through the front door and we'll have better luck at keeping out the criminals and terrorists that we don't want.

Typical leftist approach......if it's difficult, make it easier!
Can't scale the wall for the police exam......go around it!
Can't carry the dummy down the ladder at the fire exam........go down w/o it!
Can't do 30 pushups for the military.........do 10!
An immigration policy that has served well for umteen yrs is too difficult to deal with for some people......make it easier!
Some parts of medical school are pretty difficult........eliminate them!
Keep bringing those standards down, down, down.......!
Just the approach our country needs!
That's the kind of thinking that made this country great!

Nothing worth having is easy to attain.

DITTO!
Let 'em all in.....AS LONG AS THEY'RE LEGAL!

DonR,
Tell us what biz that will be so we can patronize it, OK!

 

[DasBoot]

Where do you think the word "Florida" comes from? Have we forgotten our history lessons that mentioned the first city in what is now the US was settled by Spaniards? Have we forgotten that most of the state was Spanish controlled territory until the English colonists gave firearms to the natives to do their dirty work for them?

This is relevant how???
Perhaps I should be walking around in 80lbs of Conquistador armor also!
Who cares?
It has nothing to do with the present day situation.

until the English colonists gave firearms to the natives to do their dirty work for them?

And this bothers you somehow?
Speaking of history, the Conquistadors were REAL sweethearts to the natives if I recall.
Treated them very well!

 

[STAGE 2]

In fact, good luck finding similarly sized cities/metros with less per-capita crime than San Diego. I imagine there might be a couple, but I didn't run across them in my brief search. I suggest www.city-data.com as a start. And no, finding one does not make you "win" on that one...especially if it's only slightly lower.

Apparently I have to spoon feed you. The issue is NOT whether San Diego's overall crime rate is higher or lower than other similar sized cities.

The issue is what percentage of violent and property crimes are being comitted by illegal aliens. This has been increasing every year with the larger number of immigrants that illegally enter the country. Why do you think that these people make up such a large percentage of the jail population down here?

Cities such as chula vista, escondido, and even coastal cities like la jolla have all experienced an upsurge in crime from this sector of people.

They ain't all here to pay taxes, and this isn't a figment of my imagination. I do this for a living.

 

[Wildalaska]

They ain't all here to pay taxes, and this isn't a figment of my imagination. I do this for a living.

Stage got any rough stats as to arrest figures of illegals in your neck of the woods

WildformulatingAlaska

 

[tube_ee]

Of course,

We in California got to see the true debate when, last fall, Central Valley farmers were complaining that, due to increasingly effective enforcement at the border, they were having a hard time finding folks to pick their crops.

That gets the attention of their Congresscritters... mostly conservative Republicans, BTW.

So you begin to see why there's no will to solve this problem... there's too many hands in the cookie jar for anyone to want the lid closed.

To get an effective immigration policy you're going to have to get Democrats to go against a rapidly growing group of ethnic voters, and get the Republicans to go against the Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable.

Good luck with that.

--Shannon

 

[JuanCarlos]

Apparently I have to spoon feed you. The issue is NOT whether San Diego's overall crime rate is higher or lower than other similar sized cities.

Except that's the statement I made and the statement you responded to, which I then in turn responded to. Let me refresh your memory...

I don't think that illegal immigrant crime in San Diego is that much worse than other inner-city crime in other areas. Just the color ot he person committing them.

Thats because you don't work here or live here. You haven't been to the DA's office or paid a visit to Otay Mesa or San Ysidro, or talked with the BP officers that patrol the border. What you "think" and .05 will get you a cup of coffee.

So I say that your crime caused by illegal immigrants (in addition to crime caused by legals) isn't that much worse that the crime found in any other comparable (in size) US city. You respond with the whole "that's because you're not here man...you just don't know." At which point I decided to verify what I already knew, that the San Diego area's crime stats are lower than other comparable cities with less illegals.

So it's not about spoon feeding, it's about you changing what you're claiming to say.

Really, it looks to me like you should thank the illegals...all that Spanish being spoken seems to be scaring all the really scary criminals that inhabit every other city. (Yes, this is sarcasm...mostly)

So make it easier to come in through the front door and we'll have better luck at keeping out the criminals and terrorists that we don't want.

Nothing worth having is easy to attain.

Yes, because I'm sure most of the people posting here had to work so hard for their citizenship. I know I sure did have to work hard for mine. It involved clawing my way tooth and nail out of a vagina...wow. Go me. Yeah, we might have a couple naturalized citizens engaging in this debate (but I'm guessing none from Mexico or points south), but nearly all the of the people I've heard argue to keep the status quo had to go through the herculean effort of being born to earn their place here.

DITTO!
Let 'em all in.....AS LONG AS THEY'RE LEGAL!

Except that under current immigration laws and quotas, that would make it absolutely impossible for "'em all" to get in. There are more people who want to come to this country from Mexico than we would allow in legally during those people's lifetimes.

So basically your statement makes no logical sense. Unless, of course, by "'em all" you really just mean the few you're comfortable letting in. How progressive of you.

And the only way quotas will be raised or more will be let in legally, judging by what I see on Fox News (or even on the liberal networks...this seems to be one of the few uniting strands between both sides of the political divide) and what I hear in this forum, is if enough of them come up illegally, have babies, and manage to outvote you 18 years from now. I'm rooting for them. This is the main reason I disagree with WildAlaska on deportation and keeping out illegals until the law is changed. Because it won't be changed.

What bugs me is that people cannot walk off the street into my gunclub, gym, etc without becoming a member, yet they can come into my country without becoming a "member" and reap all the benefits. If they want to become tax paying citizens, then go about it the right way. I have kids in college out of state that do not get in-state tuition rates, but here in MA they want to give illegal aliens in-state tuition rates, drivers license, etc. Yeah, there goes the cost of car insurance even higher. It's not right. Come here legally, pay taxes, fine...otherwise, stay away.

They're giving them drivers licenses? Or are they "allowing them to have" driver's licenses...in other words, are they charging them the same as everybody else for them?

Also, I'll reiterate...it's easy for most of us to sit here and talk about them needing to do it "the right way" when for us the "right was" was being in the right place at the right time in the right birth canal. Yeah, I'm real proud of myself for that one. For anybody here who actually had to work for their citizenship arguing with me, I actually respect your opinion but disagree. For those that fell headfirst into their citizenship, along with a pile of goo, I can't take your righteous indignation that they don't want to respect the naturalization process seriously. Sorry.

As far as residency for in-state tuition goes...that's not about citizenship. The purpose of those requirements isn't just to establish some sort of ethereal "residency." It's because, as an in-state resident, the state is subsidizing a portion of your education. The idea is that you (or your parents) should probably have paid some in-state taxes to "chip-in" on that. Guess what: illegal aliens actually pay several forms of taxes, even state ones. Sales tax for starters. Property taxes too (either directly if they own, or indirectly if they rent). Depending on what kind of employment documentation they have (fake though it may be), they may be chipping in some sort of state income or payroll taxes as well. And while a few people here seem convinced they'd pass up the opportunity for a visa or citizenship if it meant paying taxes, I suspect a lot of them would be more than willing to; so for many it's not their fault they aren't paying their full share.

But that's not all. Part of the reason there are exceptions to the residency requirements is the idea that while you may not have been a resident paying taxes (thus "chipping in" in the past), you may demonstrate the intent to contribute to the state economy in the future after you get your education. Which many illegal aliens (and their children) do intend to do.

I mean yeah, this used to annoy me to. I remember hearing that California was extending in-state tuition to some illegals, and being angry that I, as a US citizen (though not a California resident) couldn't get the same. Then I realized that an illegal living in California has actually paid more California taxes than I have, and contributed more to the California economy than I have. Then my white-guy indignation just melted away by the scorching heat of logic.

This is relevant how???
Perhaps I should be walking around in 80lbs of Conquistador armor also!
Who cares?
It has nothing to do with the present day situation.

Because it shows that where you were was once a Spanish speaking area, and may have been (though I'm not sure) a bilingual area ever since, just like the Southwest. So the righteous indignation may be a bit misplaced.

However, I do agree that it's pretty darn silly to have Spanish as the "primary" language when your area is not predominantly Spanish-speaking (and not even close). Which it doesn't appear to be. So yeah, it kinda pegs out the WTF?-o-meter for me, too. I don't care enough about the issue that I'd write them or stop doing business there, but I can understand why you might. I can't understand asking for any more than that.

I mean, I'm all for bilingualism, but some areas will be dominated by one of the two languages (in this case English...in others it actually would be Spanish (or Chinese, or other languages)). That should probably be respected. It should be "1" that we press for English, not "2" (at least for nationwide companies that serve a majority English userbase).

I mean, it wouldn't infuriate me to have to press "2" instead of "1"...but it would annoy me a bit. I actually prefer the ones where I just stay on the line and hit nothing, but they have a second or two to hit something...but whatever. Having seen what quality of life is like in places like Iraq, it isn't enough to really bother me no matter how their phone menus shake out.