I'm SO SICK of this illegal alien situation!
- Thread starter DasBoot
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I wasn't saying you were histrionic...I'm saying I've known many men and women that were and it was a significant factor in them being in relationships with a cheating partner.KenpoProfessor
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Again, illegals contribute to the American society as much as you, I, or anyone else
Sorry dude, I don't see them contributing, to anything other than the welfare rolls. I've seen it since I was a child growing up in Texas in the 60's and 70's and it's only gotten worse.
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
Sorry dude, I don't see them contributing, to anything other than the welfare rolls. I've seen it since I was a child growing up in Texas in the 60's and 70's and it's only gotten worse.
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
And I'm willing to bet that you could say the same about millions of illegals. I'm willing to bet that many of them have broken only one law: illegal immigration.
And I'm willing to bet that there are millions of citizens that do all those things.
So far the only difference has been the singular act of crossing the border illegally which - by itself - creates no victims.CobrayCommando
Moderator
Attempted murder, by itself has no victims. What exactly are you trying to prove?
$10 billion in 2002, with estimates of illegal immigrants at 10 million makes for easy math even with the negative side presenting the numbers. $1000 each.
At 105 million households in the US, that comes to $95 per year per household. Or ~ $30 per year per person.
Yes, there is an impact. It's a lot smaller than I would have guessed.
At 105 million households in the US, that comes to $95 per year per household. Or ~ $30 per year per person.
Yes, there is an impact. It's a lot smaller than I would have guessed.
Again, an illegal paying rent, buying food and contributing to the economy is doing as much as most Americans. The welfare rolls are abused by citizens just as easily, it's a problem inherent in the welfare system and the whole thing should be scrapped to keep anyone from getting handouts. The papers I linked to generally suggest that overall illegals contribute as much in taxes as they recieve in government benefits. In some areas the cost is worse but - like black markets in drugs, guns and prostitution - it's the criminalization of the victimless action that perpetuates most of the problems. If those illegals were legal then they would be taxed even more, they would be tracked and easier to incarcerate if they commited crimes against other people, they would be offered all the same protections and have all the same responsibilities required of them as the rest of us.
CobrayCommando
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Sec Def, its more like +$1000 for the top 10th percentile and -$50 per year per legal denizens.
JuanCarlos
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Nope.
First paragraph: since I don't consider the laws regarding immigration and employment of immigrants just, following them wouldn't impress me. Also, I'm assuming the amount of effort he had to put into following those laws was zero...again, be pushed out of the right vagina. Why would I be impressed by something he did passively and before he knew not to defecate in his pants? As for health insurance, my single working mother didn't have it for a large portion of my childhood, and if you've read a paper you know that millions of natural American citizens don't have it. Auto insurance is something not even required in every state, and plenty of citizens drive without it too.
Second paragraph: plenty of illegal immigrants never commit a non-immigration-related crime. Plenty never run drugs, or kill/rape anybody, or rob anybody. Plenty just pick lettuce, or mow lawns, or watch people's children for a paycheck and pay whatever portion of their taxes they can without drawing the eye of la migra. Also, not committing violent crime is expected in our society...I should be impressed?
I'm no more impressed by him than any illegal immigrant who's just trying to make a living here like anybody else.
First, I love it how you justify one bad act with another. Are we just supposed to not enforce laws because some americans break them too.
That aside, illegals that enter the country are also guilty of most of what I wrote above. All of these crimes cost billions of dollars in lost revenue.
But above all that, they are crimes. They are breaking the law. Why anyone should have an argument about what to do with people that openly break the law is beyond me.
That's true. Good one. There are always exceptions that make the rule.
Still, the logic that illegal immigration, by itself, creates victims can be applied to anything."He might shoot up a mall full of people with that evil assault weapon so he shouldn't be allowed to have it."
"He might drive at 80mph down the wrong side of the road while drunk so he shouldn't be allowed to buy booze"
"He might have a bomb under his turban and blow this plane up so he shouldn't be allowed to fly."
Not at all and I don't mean to justify the bad acts. I'm simply pointing out that those bad acts are not a result of illegal immigration.
How can you claim that? Twelve million illegals commiting these...if even half...there are six million rapes a year, six million homicides, six million drug runners?
Again, it's not so black and white. I mentioned my friend in Chicago that owns handguns to protect himself and his family. He's breaking the law but he's not hurting anyone. Laws are not handed down from some invisible man in the sky, they're fallible just as we are. That's why I would like to see them changed.
Why do you always put such a juvenile twist on simple statements?
But then you said you were 24 didn't you.
The simple act of me buying a gun has no victims except that I'm going on a shooting spree at the mall in 20 min.
The simple fact of me doing 30 mph over the speed limit creates no victims, until a couple of kids on bikes get creamed because I couldn't negotiate the turn at that speed.
Victims are created by a series of events leading up to their victimhood.
Taken individually, each of those events could be considered innocuous.
But combined they had a detrimental effect on someone, somewhere, somehow.
The negative ripple effects of illegal immigration are wide ranging, from domestic problems to the illegals themselves dying enroute in some way.
We have to look at the entire issue.
One murder committed by an illegal is too many.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Ok, I see what you're saying... But I think generally illegal immigration causes bad things. You're putting it a little to simplistically. To make a parallel, wouldn't you agree that legalized prostitution is safer and generally "better" for people then illegal prostitution? To me its the same thing, I think illegal immigration should be cracked down on BUT I also believe that legal immigration should be opened up and encouraged.
Maybe it would help if we told elderly conservatives that this new tax base would be paying for their social security for the next 20 years!
If only!
Yes, this goes along with the jury nullification thread as well. The answer is in my opinion to let anybody who isn't a horribly diseased convicted felon into our country. (Basically, I'm sure its a lot more complicated and the details need to be worked out.)
JuanCarlos
New member
I think the only thing you and I disagree on is the order in which it should be done. I'm all for doing it simultaneously, or opening up legal immigration first. As I said before, it makes the most logical sense anyway; illegal immigration will be easier to control if we open up the legal routes first.
KenpoProfessor
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Redworm and JC, you still have not answered the question.
What contribution to American society have ILLEGALS made, as a whole, or individually.
So far, all you've done is paid lip service to an economic transfusion, a welfare reform proposal, etc., nothing substantial to make a claim of worthiness of being here ILLEGALLY.
Don't we have enough American citizens here dragging us behind without all the extra baggage from the ILLEGALS?
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
What contribution to American society have ILLEGALS made, as a whole, or individually.
So far, all you've done is paid lip service to an economic transfusion, a welfare reform proposal, etc., nothing substantial to make a claim of worthiness of being here ILLEGALLY.
Don't we have enough American citizens here dragging us behind without all the extra baggage from the ILLEGALS?
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
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