Illegal Aliens rallying across US today

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I also located one (Hispanic) source that listed the Hispanic population of the Nashville area as around 200k(?). I'm looking for something more in-depth.
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So that would be more like 8%. 1.5 million in the metro area. Or, if that was referring to city proper, that would be 33%, which I'm not buying. That would put it at about the same as Phoenix.
 
JuanCarlos,
As far as I know Montana does not give out DL's to illegals. I'm saying so because according to the DMV, proof of legal residency is required to get a DL...but I could be wrong, and there could be exceptions. That sounds like something you guys should be leaning on the state to fix.
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Since you keep talking about Montana, I went to the MT .gov site to get it “straight from the horses mouth” (link below so you can see I’m not fabricating anything).

As you can see, the proofs of identity required by MT for an ID are easy to circumvent. A birth certificate for yourself and a child (don’t even have to present the child, just the cert.) is all that is required. Go look at your birth certificate. Ask yourself, honestly, if a 16 year old kid in his room can make a semi-passable fake photo ID, couldn’t a smuggler provide those he smuggles with a passable birth cert.? Even if the smuggler didn’t give them one, how easy do you think it would be for them to come up with one? Birth certs. have got to be one of the most easily forged identity documents. Present those fake birth certificates and then all you have to do to establish MT residency is show 'em a payroll stub.
http://www.doj.mt.gov/driving/driverlicensing.asp

Now, I will happily concede that chances are good that a good many of the 20 million illegals here aren’t going through the effort of fraudulently obtaining ID’s and then voting. Of course, even a small percentage of 20 million, is still a lot of votes…

Take a look at this map of red vs. blue voting in the ’04 pres. election. It’s interesting to notice that in states like Texas, Arizona, and California the areas that went democrat are also the areas that have the highest percentage of illegals. I’m not definitively stating that’s the reason they went the way they did, but it is an interesting graphical example of the overall point being made here.


The bottom line, and the reason I am not letting up on this point, is that illegals can easily, albeit fraudulently, acquire the ability to vote. To suggest they can't is pure-dee ignorance. To suggest they won't is naivete bordering on blind faith in a segment of people who are defined by their very nature as law breakers. Why you (or others) are unwilling to see this point, I couldn't say. But the facts are there. Take them for what you will...
 
Take a look at this map of red vs. blue voting in the ’04 pres. election. It’s interesting to notice that in states like Texas, Arizona, and California the areas that went democrat are also the areas that have the highest percentage of illegals. I’m not definitively stating that’s the reason they went the way they did, but it is an interesting graphical example of the overall point being made here.
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It's good that you're not definitively stating that, because there is definitely another easy explanation. The areas that have the highest percentage of illegals will also often have the highest population of legal Hispanic residents. Who, being both a minority and Catholic, are statistically more likely to vote Democratic.

In fact, in most "blue" counties on that map nationwide the easiest explanation is a higher-than average number of people from minority groups (including non-racial ones, such as Catholics or gays).

And yes, I realize that anybody (including illegals) willing to commit fraud and secure the proper forged documents can probably manage to get registered and vote. But I do firmly believe that a vast majority of illegal immigrants are not going to go through either the extra effort or, more importantly, the extra risk to do so. Especially since in a majority of districts neither candidate particularly favors illegal immigrants, nor do presidential candidates tend to. There just isn't enough incentive for them.

Besides which, one could argue that for an illegal immigrant a Republican vote might be the wiser; they make a lot of noise about border security and enforcement, but they also seem most likely to protect the businesses that hire illegals from facing any real penalties...thus ensuring that it remains easy for them to find jobs. Though yeah, that's a bit of a stretch...there generally just isn't much reason for a given illegal immigrant to vote either way.
 
Wow. I'll respond to a couple portions of that article:

Police Chief Terry Medina has taken the position for years that it's not in the best interest of police to enforce federal immigration law because it could prevent otherwise law-abiding illegal immigrants from reporting crime in their neighborhoods.
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See, this actually makes some level of sense to me. I don't think that immigration enforcement should necessarily be a priority for local law enforcement, and taking such a "hands-off" stance may well have its benefits. Provided somebody isn't being arrested/stopped for anything else, I see no reason to worry about their immigration status.

Of course, "something else" to me would probably include everything down to speeding tickets, and definitely include any more substantial traffic offenses like driving without insurance, without a license, or while intoxicated.

But the resolution did not go far enough for some who packed the council chamber to urge city leaders to direct police to notify residents when federal immigration officers come to town.
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Man, what?! Taking a "neutral" stance on immigration enforcement is one thing...but expecting the local law enforcement to work directly against immigration enforcement? Yeah, that's a grand idea.
 
Since it will never come to be, the massive deportations or jailings of the undocumented, I suggest we "fine" each undocumented human with the understanding that by paying the fine, they will legalize their status in the US, and further, allow each and everyone to become a US citizen, without jailings or deportation and re-entry restrictions. These folk are here now...some say betwen 12 and 20 million. Whats a fair fine? Well, asking the large number of undocumented that I see in the ER, I found that in all cases, a $2000.00 fine would be most reasonable, and that each and every one of my patients stated that if that were to be the case, they would really feel like they are finally in America...they would have a real hope for pursuit of the American dream, and they would gladly take 2nd and 3rd jobs to pay that fine. So...what does this mean? Assuming their are 12 million undocumented human beings, and each one pays a $2000.00 "fine"...hmmmm...that should be about $240,000,000,000.00 into the treasury coffers...count the the income generated and taxes paid by "attorneys" who specialize in immigration laws, the fees charged by INS to process legal status applications, the numbers of the undocumented who would now be willing to come forward and report crime...the numbers who now would be paying taxes and contributing to this great land...I see it as a win win situation. All this, at no cost to the taxpayer. See....I knew there was a viable and humanitarian solution to this issue.
 
Since it will never come to be, the massive deportations or jailings of the undocumented, I suggest we "fine" each undocumented human with the understanding that by paying the fine, they will legalize their status in the US, and further, allow each and everyone to become a US citizen, without jailings or deportation and re-entry restrictions. These folk are here now...some say betwen 12 and 20 million.
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Thats all well and good, but it does nothing but encourage further illegal immigration.

A better plan would be to impose ridiculous sentences on people who employ illegals, call the national guard out to the southern border, and once the flow stops, slowly begin to deport people.

By destroying the incentive, these people won't make the trip in the first place, the guard will catch the few that do, and the time it would take to send all of the people already here home will spread out any negative impact deporting these people might have (which itself is debatable).

An equally humanitarian solution but far more effective.
 
Well...my arguement would generate a ton of money....yours would certainly put a lot of us in the poor house...since we are in America, we are free to choose whether we make and save money, or do we throw it away because of a few who just can't think outside of the box.
 
How exactly would yours generate a "ton of money" when they are contributing only $2000 towards the several thousand they take in "benefits"? Would the benefits for them stop? If so, you would have a worse poverty situation that we already have IMO. The wages certainly wouldn't all of the sudden jump, the economy couldn't/wouldn't support it. It would also encourage illegal immigration if you could avoid the lines and simply sneak in and pay $2000 to stay.
 
A better plan would be to impose ridiculous sentences on people who employ illegals, call the national guard out to the southern border, and once the flow stops, slowly begin to deport people.
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For the first part, seems like a reasonable step to take. For the last, it'd probably not even be particularly necessary...take away their ability to find work, most would probably start heading back on their own. Being broke in the US isn't that much better than being broke in Mexico. Especially for the many who are spending time away from their families to be here.

But, and I say this every time it's brought up, screw that middle part. Yeah, great idea...continue to misuse the National Guard for purposes other than it's intended mission. Let's not just deploy them to Iraq every three years, but let's take away their training time as well so they can do what we're too cheap to hire more Border Patrol officers to do.

You want more bodies on the border? Hire more Border Patrol officers. Leave the Guard alone. It's not a military matter, and hardly qualifies as an emergency.
 
Well...my argument would generate a ton of money....
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What method would be used to collect this great amount of money.?

Most of the illegal groups do not want to pay a fine nor return to Mexico
and reenter.

Fines would only encourage the next 20 million.

One method will work, secure the borders,(it can be done),jail and fine
any employer hiring illegals, in time much of the problem will stop.
 
Well...my arguement would generate a ton of money
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And it wouldn't solve the problem. In fact it would create an even bigger incentive to come. Citizens recieve benefits that right now illegals cant get. Your just putting another token in the bag and happily handing it over. Of course this all assumes that the illegals would pay which is doubtful at best. But I guess if you're making money:rolleyes:
 
[/quote] great idea...continue to misuse the National Guard for purposes other than it's intended mission.[/quote]

The national guard's charter is the constitution of the US.

Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution contains a series of "militia clauses", vesting distinct authority and responsibilities in the federal government and the state governments.

1) Article I, Section 8; Clause 15

The Congress shall have Power ... To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.

The Guard has a unique dual mission, with both Federal and State responsibilities. During peacetime, the Governor through the State Adjutant General commands Guard forces. The Governor can call the Guard into action during local or statewide emergencies, such as storms, drought, and civil disturbances, to name a few. In addition, the President of the United States can activate the National Guard to participate in Federal missions.


I don't know about you, but there isn't anything I see that suggests that sending the guard to patrol the border would be a misuse.
 
And it wouldn't solve the problem. In fact it would create an even bigger incentive to come. Citizens recieve benefits that right now illegals cant get. Your just putting another token in the bag and happily handing it over. Of course this all assumes that the illegals would pay which is doubtful at best. But I guess if you're making money
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True, but add it once you figure out how to seal the border and it sure beats pure amnesty. Treat it as what it is: as a fine for breaking the law. If you add it to the cost to become a citizen, you save criminal court/legal costs (maybe?)

But yes, it definitely wouldn't help as a solution unto itself.
 
A better plan would be to impose ridiculous sentences on people who employ illegals,
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1. When or if I need a new backyard pool, I'm neither gonna do it myself, nor pay some contractor to start digging. Nope. I'm gonna buy a few shovels, drive over to the bus depot/ gas station/ truck stop/ kwik-e-mart and say, ¿trabajo?

The demonstration here is that i'm just talking about digging a pool. Are you going to have me jailed for a rediculously long amount of time? The bigger demonstration is that you can't stop capitalism, nor can you tell people what things they should buy or spend money on. If they want it, they will get it. Remember the 'war on drug's mega-thread? - I can't remember how many members outed themselves as past or current users. Surely that stuff didn't just rain down from the sky.

and once the flow stops, call the national guard out to the southern border,
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2. Yeah... what a great photo op for every single media outlet. No, I think properly financed, trained, and manned border patrol will be better.

slowly begin to deport people.
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First, we'll round them up into ghettos. Then we'll put them on trains to begin their long journey. Then it's off to the camps they go! Okay, low, insensitive blow there.

Mind the last word in your sentence. Technically, they shouldn't be here, but they are after all, just your fellow human being. Besides possibly blaring Latin music (which I'll admit, Juan Carlos, sounds all the same to me) while driving past your white-picket-fence neighborhood, they haven't really done anything wrong to you.

What I'm getting at, is that I think it's a lot more complicated than your 1-2-3 approach. I am, however, a big fan of that bush worker visa program.

Stage2, I did just write a whole big thing about your rant about waving US flags on the Antipitas immigration thread, just before it got closed.

¡LA MIGRA¡ ¡LA MIGRA ESTA AKI¡
 
Applesanity? The other thread was an experiment, so I didn't impose a whole lot of restrictions. But...

Don't be crossposting here. T'ain't allowed. Any replies to the now closed thread should be done via PM or email.
 
but add it once you figure out how to seal the border

One can better secure the border but doing what you're talking about is as likely as getting drugs off the streets, ending poverty, and getting corruption out of politics.

Antipitas,

The bigger demonstration is that you can't stop capitalism

Please explain to me how our current system of encouraging/expanding poverty through our generous dole system resembles capitalism. The fact that people can take advantage of these doles means I have every right, via Congress, to regulate who comes in as a potential doler. It does not take a lot of govt service to completely overshadow any economic contribution made by low income unskilled workers.

First, we'll round them up into ghettos. Then we'll put them on trains to begin their long journey. Then it's off to the camps they go! Okay, low, insensitive blow there

Yeah, that was really low, and since even you recognize it I have to ask why you still wrote it?

We deport people now and we don't pull a Hitler on them, the INS simply lacks the resources to do it on anything but a small scale. Simply throw more resources in that direction and continue the job.

Mind the last word in your sentence. Technically, they shouldn't be here, but they are after all, just your fellow human being. Besides possibly blaring Latin music (which I'll admit, Juan Carlos, sounds all the same to me) while driving past your white-picket-fence neighborhood, they haven't really done anything wrong to you

They're trespassing, that's plenty, or would you like me to go into the economic impact that they've had on the US?
 
The demonstration here is that i'm just talking about digging a pool. Are you going to have me jailed for a rediculously long amount of time?
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Yeah. Why not? Are you something special? Who enables you to have a "backyard pool", Americans or illegal aliens? Illegal "immigration" is going to adversely effect everyone eventually, even you.

badbob
 
but add it once you figure out how to seal the border

One can better secure the border but doing what you're talking about is as likely as getting drugs off the streets, ending poverty, and getting corruption out of politics.
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No, make it a path to citizenship instead of amnesty. Oh, you want to be a citizen, how exactly did you get here except illegally? Pay $2000, do not pass go. Not saying go out an collect, just make it part of the process.
 
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