How Not To Get Shot By A Good Guy
- Thread starter threegun
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At last check there were hundreds of thousands of CCW holders in Florida alone. They may not be as professional as most LE. Just reading some of the posts here a TFL make my choice seem smart.
Bottom line is crapola happens. I feel it will help.
No. Most did say that they wouldn't just roll up and shoot. All said it would make them pause. I can only assume that it would tell them who the good guy is at a glance.
Bottom line is crapola happens. I feel it will help.
No. Most did say that they wouldn't just roll up and shoot. All said it would make them pause. I can only assume that it would tell them who the good guy is at a glance.
John, How are permit holders trained? How are security guards trained?
We used to pull a joke on gun shoppers at the Pawnshop I work. When someone would ask to see a gun, as they examined the gun, we would put our arms up and make our eyes open wide. It would look as if the shopper was holding up the shop. When they looked up the expression on their faces was priceless. One actually tossed the gun to me and backed up with his arms up. Well one day a customer says that we were going to get someone shot joking like that. It was decided that we should never do that again not because a police sniper with an automatic green light was hiding in the grassy knoll but because of customers who might have a concealed weapon and really think we were being robbed.
Not every policeman is perfect or professional although most are. While I feel most officers wait to long to shoot a few might not wait long enough. Still that leaves CCP holders and security guards......neither have the training. Many security guards are people who failed the police psychological test, your true wannabe cops.
I really don't worry about looking corny or people like David making assumptions of my intentions. It is legal according to the officers I asked and my research suggests that it will help identify myself as a good guy. That combined with proper gun handling I feel makes me safer from everyone carrying except for another criminal maybe.
We used to pull a joke on gun shoppers at the Pawnshop I work. When someone would ask to see a gun, as they examined the gun, we would put our arms up and make our eyes open wide. It would look as if the shopper was holding up the shop. When they looked up the expression on their faces was priceless. One actually tossed the gun to me and backed up with his arms up. Well one day a customer says that we were going to get someone shot joking like that. It was decided that we should never do that again not because a police sniper with an automatic green light was hiding in the grassy knoll but because of customers who might have a concealed weapon and really think we were being robbed.
Not every policeman is perfect or professional although most are. While I feel most officers wait to long to shoot a few might not wait long enough. Still that leaves CCP holders and security guards......neither have the training. Many security guards are people who failed the police psychological test, your true wannabe cops.
I really don't worry about looking corny or people like David making assumptions of my intentions. It is legal according to the officers I asked and my research suggests that it will help identify myself as a good guy. That combined with proper gun handling I feel makes me safer from everyone carrying except for another criminal maybe.
Impossible to answer--the training varies widely from place to place. There may not even be training, and where it is, it's nothing like what LE gets.
I thought this was primarily about LE--are you really suggesting that pointing something shiny at a lightly trained, armed person is a good way NOT to get shot?
eltorrente
New member
This just seems like a bad idea all around.
So, what you're saying is that when the cops show up, instead of putting your gun down, you'll instead turn toward them and flash the badge, while continuing to hold the gun? If the cops are there, there is no need to continue holding the gun on the guy.
I can't envision why it would be a good idea to continue to stand there pointing the gun after the cops showed up. Turning and flashing a badge at them - just to make them think you're a cop and have the situation under control, seems pretty silly and risky.
So, what you're saying is that when the cops show up, instead of putting your gun down, you'll instead turn toward them and flash the badge, while continuing to hold the gun? If the cops are there, there is no need to continue holding the gun on the guy.
I can't envision why it would be a good idea to continue to stand there pointing the gun after the cops showed up. Turning and flashing a badge at them - just to make them think you're a cop and have the situation under control, seems pretty silly and risky.
mikejonestkd
New member
The first words out of the LEO that arrives on the scene will NOT be " Gee, what a nice shiny badge you have there...hey, I have no idea who you are but go ahead and hold onto that gun while I take a look at that nice shiny badge you have...."
What they will say is "DROP THE GUN, ......NOW!!!" If you turn to show them the badge whilst continuing to hold onto the firearm they may not consider that to be a friendly non threatening thing to do...and it may be the last thing you do...
All in all it is a very bad idea.
What they will say is "DROP THE GUN, ......NOW!!!" If you turn to show them the badge whilst continuing to hold onto the firearm they may not consider that to be a friendly non threatening thing to do...and it may be the last thing you do...
All in all it is a very bad idea.
Displaying your permit and CWP badge is not representing yourself as an officer. You are simply holding up your ID for responding LE. The fact that they and others will pause because they believe you could possibly be an officer isn't a crime. Unless you say I'm a cop or otherwise do LE duties there is no crime.
NJ, You do what you feel is proper and I will do the same. No problem. Still displaying a permit badge is no crime alone. It does give responders the idea of who is the good guy from a distance. To a man......and woman everyone I asked has said something to this effect. If it isn't illegal and does effect folks in my area the way I want it to and I feel safer.....why not? I don't care what others think in terms of it being corny. My goal is to not be shot by friendlies nothing more.
People make instant judgements based on what they see. I promise you that a black man is instantly judged as the perpretrator more times than not when in a conflict with say a white. Hispanics (like me) are going to get chosen as the perp more often than a white person. It is the facts of life and understandable since both commit higher levels of crime per capita. I want the LE officers instant judgement to be that I'm the good guy. Then he can sort it out using the evidence.
People make instant judgements based on what they see. I promise you that a black man is instantly judged as the perpretrator more times than not when in a conflict with say a white. Hispanics (like me) are going to get chosen as the perp more often than a white person. It is the facts of life and understandable since both commit higher levels of crime per capita. I want the LE officers instant judgement to be that I'm the good guy. Then he can sort it out using the evidence.
eltorrente
New member
Well then you should put the gun down when they arrive!
Why in the world would you continue to hold your weapon on the badguy and flash a fake badge after the cops arrive?!?! They pull up, you put the gun down and step back - it's real simple. Instead you want to continue holding your weapon and turn and flash your badge.
There's no reason to continue holding your weapon at someone once they get there! You act like you NEED to keep standing there for as long as possible with your gun out... it just doesn't make any sense.
Eltorrente,
For the last time I never said this. In fact I said compliance with LE orders is obviously mandatory. How about you go back and read my posts before making assumptions.
Let me ask you buddy. How can you help prevent yourself from getting shot by a concealed weapon carrying civilian who sees you pointing a gun at a bad guy while waiting for police to arrive? If he sees you also holding a badge it allows him to know who the good guy is.
You guys seem to think that every police officer is professional and that LE are the only people out there with guns. It just makes sense IMO to let them know who the good guy is. My research is unanimous with both LE and civilians. A man holding a badge will get extra time as long as he follows directions. I believe that every minority CWP holder should carry one just to counter the first assumptions made by folks arriving on the scene. If you don't want to that fine. Just don't say that it won't work because deep down inside you would never shoot a man holding a badge unless he threatens you with the gun. Yeah I know you wouldn't shoot anyone unless they threaten you with a gun.......me neither. There are however folks that would shoot based on what the see initially especially when it involves a minority. I never expect a car accident but am insured just in case...........same thing.
For the last time I never said this. In fact I said compliance with LE orders is obviously mandatory. How about you go back and read my posts before making assumptions.
Let me ask you buddy. How can you help prevent yourself from getting shot by a concealed weapon carrying civilian who sees you pointing a gun at a bad guy while waiting for police to arrive? If he sees you also holding a badge it allows him to know who the good guy is.
You guys seem to think that every police officer is professional and that LE are the only people out there with guns. It just makes sense IMO to let them know who the good guy is. My research is unanimous with both LE and civilians. A man holding a badge will get extra time as long as he follows directions. I believe that every minority CWP holder should carry one just to counter the first assumptions made by folks arriving on the scene. If you don't want to that fine. Just don't say that it won't work because deep down inside you would never shoot a man holding a badge unless he threatens you with the gun. Yeah I know you wouldn't shoot anyone unless they threaten you with a gun.......me neither. There are however folks that would shoot based on what the see initially especially when it involves a minority. I never expect a car accident but am insured just in case...........same thing.
John, Come on dude I said several times that you must comply regardless. Of course they said compliance was king. They aren't the real threat here. The over whelming majority of LE I feel bend over back wards not to shoot someone to the jeopardy of their own safety at times. They are not the problem as I have said. It is the few bad apples in LE and the hundreds of thousands of CCP holders and security guards who I worry about. Most have little if any training. Many security guards failed police psychology tests and couldn't get hired into LE. Just reading some of the post here at TFL should tell you that there are moron rambo types who carry concealed just itchin to light someone up. I don't want to be that someone. Holding my ID/Badge doesn't harm a thing and it works as intended..........according to my study.
Tim, Back to the (police are the only armed folks out there) thinking again I see. What about armed civilians? What about the dangerous felon you are holding a gunpoint? Put my leverage away before LE arrives? How about holding your ID/badge up until police arrive then follow instructions. Much safer IMO.
BTW just asked another armed guard in our shop shopping for a shotgun and he said the badge would cause him to pause also. It has just been unanimous here.
BTW just asked another armed guard in our shop shopping for a shotgun and he said the badge would cause him to pause also. It has just been unanimous here.
I will just reiterate it this way.....
There are established laws on the books regarding CCW and most police cannot or aren't trained properly to understand those. Hence the disparity when you ask an officer where you can and cannot carry. Hence some of the stories and even some bogus convictions when the sheeple believe the cop because he is a cop and for no other reason. AKA....the defendant is a defendant so he must be guilty.
I think that you will get about a 90-10 chance of going to jail for impersonating a police officer with that badge. Most officers probably haven't even seen a CCW badge and frankly I think it is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard.
I think that in your scenario, it will go like this:
[police] When I rolled up to the scene of a man holding a perp at gunpoint, this defendant sticks a wallet with a badge up in the air as if he were an undercover police officer or an off duty police officer. Believing him to be a police officer due to the badge, I turned my attention to the man on the ground. Only later when I interviewed the defendant did I come to realize that the badge was a CCW badge after which I arrested the defendant for impersonating a police officer.
[sheeple witness 1] I saw the man with the gun show the police a wallet with a badge and I immediately thought he was a police officer.
[sheeple witness 2] The man with the gun on the man on the ground held up a badge when the police arrived and I thought immediately that he was a cop.
[jury member 1] I don't like guns and I think this guy is just a cowboy wanting to act like he is a police officer.
[jury members 2-12] Definitely a wanna be
[Court reporter reading the verdict] We find the defendent guilty of impersonating an officer
[Your new cellmate] Ooooohweee you sure smell pretty. Welcome to the cell of sodomy, I took the liberty of leaving you a pillow mint and a towel to bite down on.
Pulling out a badge and pointing it at a police officer is the stupidest idea EVER. First, if the police officer sees you holding a suspect at gunpoint and you move to point ANY object at him or her, you will probably get shot just for that. If you don't, every police officer in the land is going to arrest your sorry butt for impersonating because hardly anyone but yourself even knows CCW badges exist.
You may not get shot (even that is uncertain) but you will...with 90% certainty go to jail for impersonating.
New
There are established laws on the books regarding CCW and most police cannot or aren't trained properly to understand those. Hence the disparity when you ask an officer where you can and cannot carry. Hence some of the stories and even some bogus convictions when the sheeple believe the cop because he is a cop and for no other reason. AKA....the defendant is a defendant so he must be guilty.
I think that you will get about a 90-10 chance of going to jail for impersonating a police officer with that badge. Most officers probably haven't even seen a CCW badge and frankly I think it is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard.
I think that in your scenario, it will go like this:
[police] When I rolled up to the scene of a man holding a perp at gunpoint, this defendant sticks a wallet with a badge up in the air as if he were an undercover police officer or an off duty police officer. Believing him to be a police officer due to the badge, I turned my attention to the man on the ground. Only later when I interviewed the defendant did I come to realize that the badge was a CCW badge after which I arrested the defendant for impersonating a police officer.
[sheeple witness 1] I saw the man with the gun show the police a wallet with a badge and I immediately thought he was a police officer.
[sheeple witness 2] The man with the gun on the man on the ground held up a badge when the police arrived and I thought immediately that he was a cop.
[jury member 1] I don't like guns and I think this guy is just a cowboy wanting to act like he is a police officer.
[jury members 2-12] Definitely a wanna be
[Court reporter reading the verdict] We find the defendent guilty of impersonating an officer
[Your new cellmate] Ooooohweee you sure smell pretty. Welcome to the cell of sodomy, I took the liberty of leaving you a pillow mint and a towel to bite down on.
Pulling out a badge and pointing it at a police officer is the stupidest idea EVER. First, if the police officer sees you holding a suspect at gunpoint and you move to point ANY object at him or her, you will probably get shot just for that. If you don't, every police officer in the land is going to arrest your sorry butt for impersonating because hardly anyone but yourself even knows CCW badges exist.
You may not get shot (even that is uncertain) but you will...with 90% certainty go to jail for impersonating.
New
Great then don't do it.
Check the law. Simply holding up a CW badge with your CW permit to identify yourself as a permit holder is not illegal. Again you guys are knee jerk reacting to this idea. Think it through. The fact that everyone assumes you might be a cop because of the badge is irrelevent. The fact is you have not said you are a cop. You have not performed the duties of a cop. You don't have police equiptment. You are simply properly displaying your id for officers.
Who suggested that? I said have it out and hold it UP for them to see. Only a not so smart fella would pull and point anything at police. If you would have read my posts you would know this though.
mikejonestkd
New member
>>>You are simply properly displaying your id for officers<<<
You are not displaying your Id for the officers.
You are displaying a fake badge that means nothing to the arriving LEO's, it is not accepted anywhere as legal ID, that is why you will have to provide your CCW as real proof that you have a CCW.
You are not displaying your Id for the officers.
You are displaying a fake badge that means nothing to the arriving LEO's, it is not accepted anywhere as legal ID, that is why you will have to provide your CCW as real proof that you have a CCW.
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