How Not To Get Shot By A Good Guy

[Redneckrepairs]

Pretty simple actualy with a couple of rules .

1. dont hold anyone at gunpoint .

2. dont have a gun in hand when LE shows up have it visible on the floor /ground between your feet , and back off as commanded .

 

[threegun]

You absolutely have the right to hold a person who just attempted a forcable felony on you.

Since I am not LE I don't care if bad guy runs when I take command of the situation. Once the threat is over if the bad guy gets on the ground very good if he runs away very good. I win either way. My job is to insure my safety and my families safety. This includes not getting shot by a LE officer or CCP holder that have itchy trigger fingers.

 

[Microgunner]

Sorry Threegun, but I think it's a dumb idea also and have told you so on several occasions. Ditch the badge and lay your weapon down upon the arrival of the authorities. But I must say, it's a nice shiny badge though.

 

[Hemicuda]

Wow, Threegun... I have (as a keepsake) my mother's first badge... she was county prosecutor here for years... MAYBE I oughtta use the 1977 CLEO badge... since it ain't 1977, anymore, it isn't impersonating an officer...

BAD idea... (but so is pulling a gun to "detain" someone...)

 

[David Armstrong]

Detaining BG at gunpoint----Bad idea.
Waving around a badge if you aren't a LEO---Bad idea.
Having a gun in your hands when the LEOs respond to a "man with a gun" call----Bad idea.

Starting to see a pattern here??

 

[Lurper]

There are rare occasions when it may be necessary to hold someone at gunpoint. You have just wounded them for example or you witnessed them committing an offense that justified deadly force but they stopped before you shot them. Putting your gun down before the police arrive is not tactically sound. Hopefully you have been smart enough to call 911 already and give them your description, what you are armed with, location, BG's location, etc. When the police arrive, listen to and follow their commands. I'm much more comfortable believeing that the responding officers are not just going to jump out of their cars and gun me down than I am believeing that I should disarm myself while danger close to a BG. Don't know that waving a badge is the right answer either though.

 

[Axion]

The big problem I see with holding up some sort of badge is: won't the cops know that there aren't any other cops on the scene yet and thus assume that you are an impersonator thus raising their suspicions?

 

[Powderman]

Suggestion:

Should this situation arise, here's what should work:

Maintain your coverage while calling 911. The first, vital step is to give dispatch a COMPLETE discription of yourself, including EXACTLY what you are doing.

If I were to respond to this, and my dispatch tells me that the good guy is wearing xxxx, is xxx tall and xxx lb, xxx hair, and has the suspect at gunpoint, when I pulled up on the scene the first thing I should see is you stepping back and holstering your firearm. In this case, I would gain a lot of intelligence by watching your demeanor.

Badges don't mean squat to me, unless they're backed up by a commissioning card or you're an officer I know from an agency I'm familiar with.

Anyway, when you see the officers, re-holster your firearm, turn your back to the officers, and PUT YOUR HANDS IN PLAIN SIGHT, FINGERS SPREAD, PALM VISIBLE. Interlocking your fingers on your head is a plus.

Understand, we are going to be a bit nervous about responding; until we determine (a) who you are, and (b) that you were justified in the actions you took.

 

[kozak6]

There's a reason they issue you a permit instead of a badge.

 

[threegun]

I'm curious as to why you guys keep assuming that because I have a badge I somehow want to play cop? Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is however that with many CWP's and the occasional retarded officer out there, getting shot by a friendly is a possibility.

Many of you say a badge doesn't do squat to stop you until you see ID and thats BS. You walk up on a scene with a man holding a gun on another man and you make a judgment. Hopefully that judgment doesn't involve shooting the guy holding the gun until you have made sure. Now you walk up on the scene of a guy holding a gun and a badge on a another man and you make damned sure to find out whats going on before shooting the badged one.

No matter boys and girls I got my answers from the horses mouths. As I posted before to a tee officers, detectives, and deputies from Hillsborough county sheriffs dept and Tampa police dept have agreed that it would cause them to pause until more info. None thought that it violated impersonation laws either.

While many of you are older white good guy looking CCW'ers and would get the benefit of most officers doubt I am Hispanic and might not.

 

[Tim Burke]

Unless the police surprise me in the middle of defending myself, I expect to have my weapon holstered when they arrive.
If the situation is stable enough that I can hold someone at gunpoint until the police arrive, I should be able to manipulate the situation to the point that I have sufficient control of the situation that I can holster the gun, even if I feel like I need to maintain a firing grip.

 

[threegun]

Tim, Holster your gun and hold me down? Never been in a real serious fight have you? Ever wrestled or grappled? Might be your last decision. It is super hard to subdue a violent male that you are not in position to shoot with bare hands.

Try wrestling someone of similar size just for fun then imagine if they were on drugs or otherwise fighting for their lives. I just isn't wise to get close.

 

[David Armstrong]

No matter boys and girls I got my answers from the horses mouths. As I posted before to a tee officers, detectives, and deputies from Hillsborough county sheriffs dept and Tampa police dept have agreed that it would cause them to pause until more info.

I would suggest that perhaps your in-person contacts were being diplomatic and/or pulling your leg a bit, as virtually every officer I've mentioned it to has said it was a bad idea. Equally, perhaps more importantly, when searching the topic on a number of forums, I did not find a single officer saying it was a good idea, but a lot of them saying it wasn't. Just something to consider.

Tim, Holster your gun and hold me down?

Again, why try to hold the BG down, or detain him, or any of that other nonsense? More importantly, what are you going to do, shoot the BG is he decides to get up and walk away?

 

[Tim Burke]

Exactly. I'm not wrestling with him or holding him down, period. I'm not even going to prevent him from leaving. The only reason I'll hold him "at gunpoint" is to control the situation if he doesn't immediately leave the scene. Shortly after the gun is presented he's probably going to do one of following:

1. Fall down and bleed.
2. Cease hostilities and comply.
3. Run away.
4. Continue to fight.

So what will I do?

1. Move to a position of cover. Scan 360. Reload. Holster. Call the police. Continue to scan.
2. Face him away from me. Scan 360. Prone him out. Move to a position of cover. Holster. Call the police. Continue to scan.
3. Scan 360. Move to a position of cover. Holster. Call the police. Continue to scan.
4. Shoot him until he does 1, 2 or 3 and then switch algorithms.

If he drops his weapon really, really quick and then just stands there daring me to shoot him, I'll tell him to leave.

 

[threegun]

I would suggest that perhaps your in-person contacts were being diplomatic and/or pulling your leg a bit, as virtually every officer I've mentioned it to has said it was a bad idea. Equally, perhaps more importantly, when searching the topic on a number of forums, I did not find a single officer saying it was a good idea, but a lot of them saying it wasn't. Just something to consider.

I would suggest that you listen to the officers in your area as they should be a good indication of the mindset in your part of the country. Our local officers have no reason to "pull my leg" or otherwise deceive me. Two of the officers are family members and certainly wouldn't steer me into a crime.

I certainly hope you posed the idea without inserting this false notion that I somehow want to play cop or want to hold a bad guy etc. I explained my priorities being a hero or wannabe cop isn't one of them. If the badguy runs away no longer a danger........great I win.

What can you do to help insure that you aren't mistaken for a criminal and shot? Giving a description of yourself to 911 operators is great for on duty cops but doesn't address off duty officers and ccw holders. Compliance with commands is something you need to do anyway. Putting your gun down again can be done in addition to.

Ask your cop friends what they hold up when off duty to prevent them from being shot by friendlies..................their badge. A shiny piece of tin foil would serve the same purpose. It works for LE and it will work for Johnny citizen.

 

[Microgunner]

Again, why try to hold the BG down, or detain him, or any of that other nonsense? More importantly, what are you going to do, shoot the BG is he decides to get up and walk away?

I have to agree with this thinking. If the BG got up and walked away I wouldn't shoot him or grapple with him. So it's a moot point. I wouldn't attempt to hold the assailant at gunpoint.

 

[WIN71]

I bought a badge that looks like those carried by police. In the event that I shoot someone or am holding someone at gunpoint I will hold this badge (in a black wallet style holder) high above my head. The mere sight of this badge will cause police,ccw's and other good guys to pause before shooting.

It should work. In fact I know it will work. That's why perps don't do it. They don't want another perp coming along and mistakenly shooting them thinking they are a cop.

 

[threegun]

I will not jeopardize my safety by trying to PHYSICALLY detain anyone. I don't want to play policeman. In fact I think the badge is a bit corny. Still it will cause good guys to delay shooting you until things are sorted out which is my purpose. The occasions for its need will probably be more rare than the chances of the shootout itself still we prepare for the shootout why not the aftermath?

 

[David Armstrong]

I would suggest that you listen to the officers in your area as they should be a good indication of the mindset in your part of the country.

Did that just the other night. About 20 af the guys/gals, and to a man they rejected the idea. Again, I would suggest that what the friendly LEO says to non-LE in response to certain questions is not necessarily what they really think. I believe you will get a better indication if you check out the responses on LE sections of various forums as opposed to an in-person discussion.

I certainly hope you posed the idea without inserting this false notion that I somehow want to play cop or want to hold a bad guy etc.

I don’t think I inserted any notions at all. I have responded fairly directly to the statements made.

What can you do to help insure that you aren't mistaken for a criminal and shot?

You can’t insure it. However you can reduce the chances quite a bit by not doing silly things. As a general rule, if you will do EXACTLY what the friendly officer tells you to do when he tells you to do it, you won’t get shot. I worked undercover/plainclothes/off-duty, and my reaction was always the same---when the nice policeman came in (unless I was working with a team that personally knew me) when they said “down on the ground” I tried to be the first one there.

Ask your cop friends what they hold up when off duty to prevent them from being shot by friendlies..................their badge.

Sorry, I have never heard such a thing. First, the badge doesn’t mean much, as anybody can get one and I can’t read it until I get real close to you. Second, the badge doesn’t mean anything if you don’t do exactly what I tell you, and if you do what I tell you the badge is not relevant at all. Third, real cops talk to each other, they don’t flash tin and expect it to mean anything.

It works for LE and it will work for Johnny citizen.

I doesn’t work for LE. That is one reason why we get off-duty/plainclothes officers shot every year. They think the badge is some sort of magic talisman and don't follw the basic rules.

....why not the aftermath?

Because silly tricks lead to a false sense of security, and can lead to getting shot. Save your money, standing there waving your CCW permit around will be just as effective as a badge would be.

 

[threegun]

Did that just the other night. About 20 af the guys/gals, and to a man they rejected the idea. Again, I would suggest that what the friendly LEO says to non-LE in response to certain questions is not necessarily what they really think. I believe you will get a better indication if you check out the responses on LE sections of various forums as opposed to an in-person discussion.

Are you trying to tell me that you and your LE friends would shoot a man holding a person at gunpoint with a badge in the other hand? What kind of officers do you associate with David? Provided no threats to your safety are made of course this is absolutely the most disgusting thing I have heard. The fact that a police officer will not pause in the face of a badge provided the holder of the badge isn't making threatening movement is disturbing. No I think I'll go with my LE friends who will pause to assure that the badge isn't a fellow officer.

I don’t think I inserted any notions at all. I have responded fairly directly to the statements made

My response was to multiple folks David. I should have done a better job directing it sorry.

It doesn't work for LE. That is one reason why we get off-duty/plainclothes officers shot every year. They think the badge is some sort of magic talisman and don't follow the basic rules.

Or an officer reacted to soon because their was no badge. Remember I said following the verbal commands of the officer is a must. The badge is in addition to.....

Because silly tricks lead to a false sense of security, and can lead to getting shot. Save your money, standing there waving your CCW permit around will be just as effective as a badge would be.

Apparently with your LE friends who will shoot the badge holder before finding out whats going on. I'm am at a loss for words David. I really can't believe what your friends told you.

I mean you say your friends reject my idea. They say it won't work. That means they won't pause to make sure that my badge isn't a fellow officer. I have only one word WOW.