how many rounds

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If one guy is trying to beat you, justifying the use of deadly force could be very difficult indeed.
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It could be. On the other hand, it might not be. That depends entirely on the details of the specific situation, and how much some people will "muddy the waters".

If the "disparity of force" is obvious (200+lb teen vs 105lb granny) most people would not think long about accepting use of deadly force in self defense as a viable argument.

When the individuals are more closely physically matched, a lot more doubt can ensue.

I've heard people so thoughtless as to actually say "why did he have to shoot? He was only getting a beating!"

A lot of us are no longer young, or physically fit, the beating that someone else might recover from in a few days might be the last event in my life, and I, personally feel it very reasonable to use deadly force as a last resort to avoid that.
 
DA/SA Fan said:
You live and travel only in the best of neighborhoods. Statistics show 2 shots are most likely going to be needed. You can't imagine a scenario where more than a few rounds would ever be needed. Who cares?! The question is, are you such a wimp that carrying an extra magazine or two is gonna reduce you to tears and incessant complaining? You're never gonna need a gun. Does it kill you to carry one? You're never gonna need an extra 20 rounds. Is it gonna kill you to carry it? If it were like carrying around a 60 lb. weight I could understand the hemming and hawing about having too much but really is it that tough on you? If your health insurance charged you an extra 5 dollars a year just in case an injury or illness would be catastrophic enough to cost more than 10 million dollars would you take it? I would. That's why I carry 15+1 and a couple extra mags. Because the catastrophic insurance is cheap.
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Given everything else already on my person, there's no room for extra mags without getting a batman utility belt. I'm just not a mall ninja that I feel the need to carry all that.
 
I don't have the answer to the OPs post, and many others have pontificated from the perspective of stats and "normal" conditions. I had an observation today shooting a match. If you have ever shot a pistol or 3 gun match you know ammo does not always work the way you would like. I saw several shooters eject rounds during the stage because the round did not go bang. That is something to consider when you think about your loadout. We had a stage that required 8 rifle shots, reload and shot 12 on another array. Most of us loaded exactly that so we could be on an empty chamber when we transitioned to pistol. One guy had a Fail to Fire, so he was unable to fully engage the targets.
I thought I would add that point for consideration.
 
Given everything else already on my person, there's no room for extra mags without getting a batman utility belt. I'm just not a mall ninja that I feel the need to carry all that.
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Like I said:
are you such a wimp that carrying an extra magazine or two is gonna reduce you to tears and incessant complaining?
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DA/SA Fan said:
Like I said:
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Then yes, I am said wimp. Wallet, phone, keys, knife, flashlight, pointer, gun, epipen, notepad, pen&pencil, voice recorder...my pockets are full enough. A stronger argument could be made to carry an IFAK at all times, but I'm not doing that either.
 
What makes you feel confident is what's important. One can reach the point of ludicrous paranoia, but if having a double stack magazine gives you the mental confidence to more clear headedly react to the situation...it's not ludicrous.

I pack a .357 revolver with no reloads. I feel confident it will deal with everything I might encounter. That works for me. I have to admit that I would prefer a double stack if it were a .380. I kinda wish my PPS had one more in the mag.
 
45_auto said:
Please tell us how many rounds you carry, as that is obviously the definitive answer that will solve EVERY possible situation.
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military-humor-because-reloading-is-stupid.jpg
 
Not so much a handgun issue but in warfare, it is often the case that the losing side in a battle had expended all their ammunition.
 
Defending against a Beating

Posted by 44AMP:
....depends entirely on the details of the specific situation, and how much some people will "muddy the waters".
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If the "disparity of force" is obvious (200+lb teen vs 105lb granny) most people would not think long about accepting use of deadly force in self defense as a viable argument.
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So we are told by the epparts.

When the individuals are more closely physically matched, a lot more doubt can ensue.
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Yes indeed.

I've heard people so thoughtless as to actually say "why did he have to shoot? He was only getting a beating!"
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There are a couple of places in the self defense literature that have concerned me by distinguishing between a 'beat down" and an immediate threat of serious injury. Scary.

Remember the famous "I was afraid he was going to kick my____" to justify shots that killed a huge tough guy that led to a conviction. (Ayoob)

A lot of us are no longer young, or physically fit, the beating that someone else might recover from in a few days might be the last event in my life, and I, personally feel it very reasonable to use deadly force as a last resort to avoid that.
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A list of chronic maladies and physical risks that a physician could substantiate should enter into the equation.

The issue is probably going to hinge on a reasonable belief of immediate necessity to employ deadly force to defend against an imminent threat of death or crippling injury or sexual assault.
 
The issue is probably going to hinge on a reasonable belief of immediate necessity to employ deadly force to defend against an imminent threat of death or crippling injury or sexual assault.
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This is, I believe the basic standard applied to all defense shootings. A documentable medical condition that makes one "more fragile" than an average person could be information a jury (or earlier, the investigators & prosecutor's office) could use and need for them to understand why your reasonable belief might be different than average (if it is).

There are also situations where even a perfectly healthy young, fit person is at risk of death or serious injury from an unarmed attacker. To my mind, if an attacker is beating your head against the sidewalk (for example) you are at serious immediate risk of death.

Despite the way some people speak and act, NO ONE's skull is harder than concrete.
 
A documentable medical condition that makes one "more fragile" than an average person could be information a jury (or earlier, the investigators & prosecutor's office) could use and need for them to understand why your reasonable belief might be different than average (if it is).
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Or that makes one especially vulnerable to falls or blows or cuts.
 
45

Quote:
Originally Posted by brit
sorry, I don't gamble, period.

Please tell us how many rounds you carry, as that is obviously the definitive answer that will solve EVERY possible situation.
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I shoot a double stack (Glock 19 4th Gen) more accurately than a single stack.

With 16 rounds under the striker, gives me lots of ways to go. No worry's.

An extra G17 magazine, more for malfunction purposes than anything else.

And a Surefire light, 38" belt, not full by any means.

Why are people so against me carrying a 16 round capacity pistol, and a 17 round extra magazine? I can mostly hit a head plate at 20m, I can flood a center chest area of an IDPA target, 5 rounds? In 2 seconds.

I carry this load out, every day, and night. If I get into a violent encounter (done that, been there) I will be drawing a pistol I am totally familiar with, shot thousands of rounds through. Or not!

What it means to me, I know my kit. Very happy. If anyone thinks a 5 shot snubby is enough, good for you. I do not
 
Blackbook said:
Then yes, I am said wimp. Wallet, phone, keys, knife, flashlight, pointer, gun, epipen, notepad, pen&pencil, voice recorder...my pockets are full enough. A stronger argument could be made to carry an IFAK at all times, but I'm not doing that either.
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Are you carrying all that in your pockets? I have a combination cell phone / utility belt pouch that holds most of this and enables me to carry a pistol & extra magazine with no discomfort.
 
Old marksman, you got me. Very good assessment.

When I have so much confidence in my survival chances I'm weighing a lot of things. The relative lack of super thugs around here. The probability that any confrontation will be close range, with few assailants, poorly or ordinarily armed. No huge advantage to the bad guy, as there just aren't any gang shootouts here, or random street murders. It's a safe place.

What are the most likely scenarios? A few lightly armed punks, poorly equipped to deal with a determined target.

Sixteen rounds gives plenty of opportunities to disable multiple targets in a simple scenario. Six really heavy rounds will too, with careful placement. With a.380,I it gets wobbly, I believe, given that I only use it for cow, it still would be effective in any ordinarily expected encounter with lightly armed and utrained goons. LA? That is a whole new kettle of radioactive slugs.

I worry about the cops here. The rules have changed. Ordinarily one would expect slow escalation of a confrontation here, as opposed to an explosive, violent attack, but not for a cop. The usual rules don't apply anymore.
 
One of the points made is that a serious beating may not justify use of lethal force.

Wait until someone yells loudly in a political forum that rape doesn't justify lethal force. One time that happened, and a US congressman retired. Attack during a hate crime? It won't be an issue, probably.

If I take a serious blow to the head I risk death or terrible injury. I'm going to have to be overly cautious. Unlike a woman, a gay, an old Jewish guy or other endangered group, people will be far more critical if I put down a bunch of unarmed children who were just out having some fun. A person who kills and walks away without a scratch is possibly at risk, especially if it is a visibly healthy and fit male. People don't want to see "justice" perverted. If I shoot two guys with clubs,there will be many people stupidly demanding that I be charged.
 
OldMarksman,

Let me see if I understand your response about a medical condition might be a
mitigating factor in using deadly force to protect oneself. A man or woman has
a medical condition that causes them to bleed easily if they get into a physical
altercation. I mean "at the drop of a hat".There are certain meds that are given that causes a person's epidermal tissue to rupture by simple scraping against a wall or having someone shake their hands to forcefully. People who take Prednisone regularly over a certain amount of time develop this condition and this is easily verifiable thru one's medical records.

Is this along the lines that you were thinking?

Doc
 
Doc, I'm not at all sure that "bleeding easily" would cut it; pardon the pun.

But there are medications that prevent clotting, and while the effects of some of them can be reversed with immediate treatment, those of some others cannot.

The latter seem to be heavily represented in TV ads for law firms "If you or a loved one has died...."
 
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