Home Defense Gun: Shotgun vs Lever Action Rifle

Looks like I'll be using the Remington reduced recoil ammo mentioned till they bring it back. I'm going to take other's advice here and use my 44 as the first go to gun and keep looking for an affordable shotty or rifle in 44/22mag.
 
MV:

Do take care not to load pointed tip bullets in a tubular magazine. BAD THINGS can happen when you do so. Like the recoil from a cartridge discharging those in the tube magazine, as the points act like firing pins. Never witnessed it, but it has been written about for decades.

More specifically, those accelerator & accelerator-like bullets and sabots use pointed bullets rather than the flat soft points usually loaded in .30-30 commercial ammo. The only pointy ammo safe for use in such lever guns with tubular magazines is the Hornady Leverevolution fodder with the rubbery tip. Rubbery & flexible, not plastic. FTR, the Leverevolution line is generally higher velocity than is usual for the cartridge.

Non-rubbery-tip pointed bullet cartridges are safe to load singly or singly and ONE in the tubular magazine (if it will cycle).

This effectively makes your Marlin a single shot or two-shot gun with accelerator or sabot bullets.

Accelerator:
Accelerator.jpg


Managed Recoil:
330519.jpg


Rem Managed Recoil .30-30 stats (125gr@ 2150fps) look like a buffed up .30 Carbine. (110gr@1990fps). The flat soft point ought to be even more effective on 2-legged predators.

GUN LIGHT
Very useful addition to any HD long gun. A good idea someone upthread mentioned. I looked this up back a while back regarding wife's lever gun. I found two mount solutions: one sleek & functional and one merely functional.

Functional: Choate Universal Picatinny Rail Mount
https://www.riflestock.com/store/product/universal-picatinny-rail/
$13
I have this mounted on a HD shotgun fore end. Would work on a cheap Maverick shotgun, too.
Requires one to drill a couple pilot holes in the forend. If you don't want to permanently alter your forend, Numrich has wood forends for $35:
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/winchester/rifles-win/1894-2

Sleek: Hill People Gear Lever Light Mount
http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/8/ProductID/135
$110
Review: https://jerkingthetrigger.com/2017/12/05/review-hill-people-gear-lever-light-mount/
I don't own this one, but sure looks slick.

When I use my own money for a gun light, I buy Streamlight:
https://www.streamlight.com/products/explore-products/weapon-mounted-lights
Entirely satisfied with the three (still functional) TLR-1 lights I have bought over the last decade+.
 
I personally would never go with shotgun for indoor home defense use, as it's nowhere near precise enough. I also don't use handguns for home defense, as a rifle/carbine with an EOtech or red dot is simply easier & more effective to use. Keep in mind everything will zip through drywall and insulation. The goal is to ensure you don't miss and the round doesn't over-penetrate through the target.

I'm in a similar living situation and I went though the same analysis years ago. I went with a niche solution. However if I were to do-over, I'd personally just get the IWI X95 in either 5.56 or .300 blackout and add a suppressor. The X95 is very compact for indoor use, but it has a full length barrel (so no SBR blast level), and combined with an EOtech it makes a very nice HD setup. A light 5.56 frangible round won't pass through. Change to .62 or .77 grain ammo and it transitions nicely to a vehicle or outside the home, making it versatile.

A.300 blackout can over-penetrate, however Hornady makes some good specialty rounds for this purpose. You just have to be careful in selecting the ammo.
 
Thanks, I'll keep the light in mind but since this is a multi purpose gun that I'll take out hunting I don't want to make any permanent alterations. I don't really see the need for it either since I don't plan on clearing rooms with it. The long gun will be my door gun once I get everyone in the safe room. Until then I suppose a flashlight in hand with the revolver would work. I still plan on adding some nice wood furniture to a shotgun that doesn't have it only because I prefer the classic old school look and not really into tacti-cool.
 
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Also, I've been looking into ways to mitigate the noise issue that's been brought up many times and it seems a good pair of electronic headphones (the kind that amplify low sound and protect against harmful ones) are the best solution since I'm not going to spend that kind of money for a suppressor and don't want to make any alterations to my gun.
 
I think electric ear phones and a 12g shotgun with a suppressor would be idea HD gun. While you are worrying about such trivia bad guy will kill you with a pencil.
 
Drm50 said:
I think electric ear phones and a 12g shotgun with a suppressor would be idea HD gun. While you are worrying about such trivia bad guy will kill you with a pencil.
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Perhaps my last post wasn't quite clear enough where I stated the ear protection was an alternative to the suppressor which I cannot afford and even if I could what would be the point of the earphones then?
 
jfruser said:
MV:

Do take care not to load pointed tip bullets in a tubular magazine. BAD THINGS can happen when you do so. Like the recoil from a cartridge discharging those in the tube magazine, as the points act like firing pins. Never witnessed it, but it has been written about for decades.

More specifically, those accelerator & accelerator-like bullets and sabots use pointed bullets rather than the flat soft points usually loaded in .30-30 commercial ammo. The only pointy ammo safe for use in such lever guns with tubular magazines is the Hornady Leverevolution fodder with the rubbery tip. Rubbery & flexible, not plastic. FTR, the Leverevolution line is generally higher velocity than is usual for the cartridge.

Non-rubbery-tip pointed bullet cartridges are safe to load singly or singly and ONE in the tubular magazine (if it will cycle).

This effectively makes your Marlin a single shot or two-shot gun with accelerator or sabot bullets.
Click to expand...
Looks like the topic of using accelerators in tube magazines had been discussed before here. It makes sense to me that if they're low recoil enough it shouldn't be an issue
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366413
 
Perhaps my last post wasn't quite clear enough where I stated the ear protection was an alternative to the suppressor which I cannot afford and even if I could what would be the point of the earphones then?
Click to expand...

Because if your supressor was able to give you 20 dB of attenuation open air you would be taking a ~130dB blast and only reducing it to ~110dB. A 110dB hit is still enough to ring your ears pretty good and thats BEFORE you add in the GAIN from the walls, corners, or hallway environment that you discharge the gun in.
 
SHR970 said:
Because if your supressor was able to give you 20 dB of attenuation open air you would be taking a ~130dB blast and only reducing it to ~110dB. A 110dB hit is still enough to ring your ears pretty good and thats BEFORE you add in the GAIN from the walls, corners, or hallway environment that you discharge the gun in.
Click to expand...
I suppose I'll take my chances on using the ear protection alone then since I'm not going to throw my Benjamins at an accessory the price of another gun.
 
One problem with using the lever gun at in house distances is that it requires two hands to operate for more than one shot and (one handing a 30/30 ? You better have a good solid grip!) ...... you can't use a phone and run it. Use a handheld light .... Open or close doors .... If you are going to choose a shotgun, have a pistol grip on it, and a light. I'd go with an AR carbine fed with very light (45gr) varmit bullets .... and the noise cancelling earmufs .... and a suppressor.
 
MarineVaquero said:
As an alternative to the shotgun, I'm looking at a Marlin 94 in 44 mag. Both the marlin and my revolver would be loaded with 44 special of course. I feel most comfortable with the old school guns since I'm a bit of an enthusiast and that's what I shoot most often. I also consider them more reliable than any semi-auto and I don't need anything high capacity since I don't plan on a gun fight. My plan is simply to get my family all in the same room, lock the door and wait for the cops to arrive. I'll let them engage the perp. (that what they get paid the big bucks for anyway right?) I can use the revolver to get my family to safety and then use the long gun to cover the door. At that point I really don't care if it's a 30-30 cause it's going straight into the sumbitch's chest that comes through that door and I know many hunting rounds like I already said will break up and not over penetrate. Anyway, my 2¢/plan of attack
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Why must I keep repeating myself? Also, didn't I just say that I can't afford a suppressor? Also, I hate and don't plan on ever owning any AR platform. The following link pretty much explains why.
http://madogre.com/?p=174
 
Madogre's complaints about the AR mostly apply to it's problems as a military weapon put to hard use/sustained firing. You application is for home defense. If you are dealing with a home invasion by so many assailants that it would require sustained firing such that it would cause problems with an AR .... your levergun will run dry and/or fail you long before the AR would..... but do what you like, you asked our opinions, and we gave them .... worth what you paid for them. Good luck.
 
jimbob86 said:
Madogre's complaints about the AR mostly apply to it's problems as a military weapon put to hard use/sustained firing. You application is for home defense. If you are dealing with a home invasion by so many assailants that it would require sustained firing such that it would cause problems with an AR .... your levergun will run dry and/or fail you long before the AR would..... but do what you like, you asked our opinions, and we gave them .... worth what you paid for them. Good luck.
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I'm sorry but you are absolutely wrong on a lever gun failing. An AR is much more likely to fail than a lever gun, lever guns are by far one if not the most reliable systems by design. The only thing AR has going for it is capacity but as I've already said I don't plan on clearing every room or trying to be some John Wick Billy badass in a fire fight. I love my family too much and I'd rather leave that to the trained professionals. A lever gun or shotgun on the door of the safe room will do just fine
 
TheGunGeek said:
I personally would never go with shotgun for indoor home defense use, as it's nowhere near precise enough. I also don't use handguns for home defense, as a rifle/carbine with an EOtech or red dot is simply easier & more effective to use. Keep in mind everything will zip through drywall and insulation. The goal is to ensure you don't miss and the round doesn't over-penetrate through the target.

I'm in a similar living situation and I went though the same analysis years ago. I went with a niche solution. However if I were to do-over, I'd personally just get the IWI X95 in either 5.56 or .300 blackout and add a suppressor. The X95 is very compact for indoor use, but it has a full length barrel (so no SBR blast level), and combined with an EOtech it makes a very nice HD setup. A light 5.56 frangible round won't pass through. Change to .62 or .77 grain ammo and it transitions nicely to a vehicle or outside the home, making it versatile.

A.300 blackout can over-penetrate, however Hornady makes some good specialty rounds for this purpose. You just have to be careful in selecting the ammo.
Click to expand...

Unless you live in a mansion with some spectacularly large ballrooms, a shotgun is as precise a firearm as one will need for in-home(1) HD. Even indifferent wally-world buckshot out of a cylinder bore stays tight enough for head shots in most every domicile I have ever entered. Take the time to pattern your gun with various ammo and/or use Fed Flitecontrol buckshot, and it holds even tighter. And then there are slugs (for those with neighbors a ways off).

And a HD shotgun needs no powered sight or even a bead(3), if one knows how to wing shoot. Pointability is definitely in the shotgun's favor.

AR15s are fine and I own several. They have their charms and utility in HD and elsewhere.

(1) If your home is rural and your HD long gun is for both internal and external varmints, those added requirements may steer one to a rifle or carbine.

(3) My wingshooting bbl lost its bead a while back. Meh, I still knock down pheasants using a full choke.
 
So back to the original question(s) asked and info involved. OP lives in an Apt. so size limited. Choices are 30-30 that was Passed down (I assume sentimental value), a 44 mag. revolver, a NAA Mini, or buy a $200 Maverick 88.

NAA for in home social work...not if I had better and he does.
30-30: No, not even with reduced recoil Rem. 125 gr. SP even IF he could get them. IF you have to use it there is a good chance the PD will sieze it as evidence and depending on your jurisdiction you may NEVER see it again. Back to that sentimental value part.
44Mag.: Loaded with decent 44 Spec. HP.'s YES. Low pressure means less muzzle blast / defening noise and one hand free for other uses like calling 911 / herding family / opening doors.
$200 Maverick: Yes, even low grade buckshot will do the job but low recoil will be better for several reasons and muzzle blast is one. If siezed it would still be worth the losing $200 if you never got it back.
Plugs or electronic ears are fine and well if you remember to put them on @ 0Dark:30. 44 Specials and Low Recoil Buck will help if you don't.
 
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