azredhawk44
Moderator
You're right, PBP... the logic of the argument is not similar, but the emotional basis of the argument is similar.
Won't you think of the kids at the gun show?
Won't you think of the kids at the gun show?
Gun show carry ban??? Support or not?
- Thread starter Playboypenguin
- Start date
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Oh. I think about them. I keep thinking that if they do not get out of my way I am going to start kicking them in the rear...then find their parents and do the same to them.
i would have to agree with red hawk on ignoring posted signage, i do it all the time. i dont carry a gun to play cop, i have it to protect me and my family. so if someone is robbing your store you dont ever have to worry about me trying to save the day if im not in danger. i'll be on the ground in the back like martin lawrence in the movie blue streak.
on the other hand, at gun shows i really would not feel comfortable with people carrying loaded firearms. gun shows have too many novices and careless people picking up and waving things around. if its for the greater good i dont have a problem leaving my magazine in the car.
There are good points being made on both sides of this issue.
Some of you make it sound as if everyone would be randomly be carrying all of their guns around openly loaded.
I respect a property owners wishes and will comply with any laws and requirements due to insurance or the rules in place for the show, but that being said I don't believe holders of a valid CCW should be banned to carry. If all the reasons of safety and carelessness are are true then it could be argued that none of should ever be allowed to carry. If we don't trust ourselves how can we expect the non shooting public to trust us?
Some of you make it sound as if everyone would be randomly be carrying all of their guns around openly loaded.
I respect a property owners wishes and will comply with any laws and requirements due to insurance or the rules in place for the show, but that being said I don't believe holders of a valid CCW should be banned to carry. If all the reasons of safety and carelessness are are true then it could be argued that none of should ever be allowed to carry. If we don't trust ourselves how can we expect the non shooting public to trust us?
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Who cares?
We're talking about people who have a permit to carry a handgun. This whole "careless people", "idiots", "novices" idea can not possibly be limited to gun shows. If those people are so dangerous then surely there must be some standard for gun ownership to weed them out. No? That would violate our rights?
Good. Don't violate my rights because of what somebody else MIGHT do. Punish THEM and leave ME alone.
Nope, sorry, doesn't fly. The first set are strictly racial and discriminatory, and a weak argument at that. The second set... every see the stores that say "no shirt, no shoes, no service"? Same deal.
A person who runs a business that is his or her property has the right to not allow guns in the place of business. Same with them having the right to say you must be fully clothed. If not, you are not allowed in, and if you come in anyway you are trespassing which you do not have the right to do. Our RKBA does not negate their right to say "Not in my house!"
Playboypenguin
Moderator
But the reality is that it is very different. The circumstances and activities at a gunshow are completely unique in the fact that many people are openly handling many guns including their own carry guns.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
And THAT is the problem. Put up a nice rule, like I suggested in the other thread:
I would add "and banned from all future shows in the state, for life, no exceptions, no further warnings." (Items in parenthesis added to previous quote for clarity)
and them DO IT. Certainly there are many incidents that COULD be accidents that or NOT accidents and those would be the lab rats, as it were, and when people start seeing that others are permanently booted from all shows for drawing their carry piece then they will fall in line also. Just like sane people do with all the other laws/rules which have consequences severe enough that they don't want to experience them.
I don't have any problems with people bringing loaded guns into a gun show, with that being said: Don't bring loaded guns if you have any inkling of selling said gun. It should go without saying that your carry gun shouldn't come out of it's holster unless needed for use, otherwise don't bring it loaded.
The only other thing I could see being of issue is someone bringing a gun in and all of a sudden they have a mag in their gun and it didn't about a minute ago.
The only other thing I could see being of issue is someone bringing a gun in and all of a sudden they have a mag in their gun and it didn't about a minute ago.
CortJestir
New member
I do not support any prohibitions to carry loaded firearms at gun shows. We have enough folks telling us what we are "allowed" to do with our firearms.
I think the solution Peetzakiller advocates - a notice to leave all loaded firearms holstered at all times while attending the show - is a good compromise and makes sense. At my gun club, we have similar rules: all loaded handguns must be holstered at all times on club property except at the ranges. A violation is brought up to the executive committee for review and action on the offending member.
I think the solution Peetzakiller advocates - a notice to leave all loaded firearms holstered at all times while attending the show - is a good compromise and makes sense. At my gun club, we have similar rules: all loaded handguns must be holstered at all times on club property except at the ranges. A violation is brought up to the executive committee for review and action on the offending member.
This is not a close question for me. Remember the basic rules of firearm safety? (1) the gun is always loaded; (2) never point a gun at something/someone you don't intend to shoot; (3) keep your finger off the trigger unless you're planning to shoot; (4) always know what's behind your target? Now, think of what you've all undoubtedly witnessed at shows. I don't know how many times I've been at a show, looking at merchandise, when I've seen people pick up guns from display tables and start pointing them in the general direction of other attendees and even dry firing them in directions that put spectators directly in the line of aim. It's enough to give me the creeps. Given that, the last thing I want is people packing heat in one of these shows. In the excitement of the moment the urge to show off/play with weapons becomes contagious and who knows what may eventuate from that?
I don't get it...
Idiots are everywhere! All the anti-gun folks would say we are all crazy or idiots or phsycho... or cling to our god and guns. Maybe we should have rules and background checks before we give someone a carry permit.
Oh wait, we do!
For those who say, you shouldn't be allowed to carry because 'you don't need to. Nothing ever happens at a gun show." I can show you dozens of people who vote every election to limit your rights or eliminate them. They too say the same thing. In place of gun show insert: grocery store, walking your dog in this neighborhood, just running out quick to get gas, while fishing or hiking!
If you don't think they should be allowed to limit your right based on when and where they think you should be allowed to defend yourself or exercise your rights, then why do you think you should be allowed to limit mine?
However, I do think that the owner or renter of the property should have the right to limit who ever they want for whatever reason.
Idiots are everywhere! All the anti-gun folks would say we are all crazy or idiots or phsycho... or cling to our god and guns. Maybe we should have rules and background checks before we give someone a carry permit.
Oh wait, we do!
For those who say, you shouldn't be allowed to carry because 'you don't need to. Nothing ever happens at a gun show." I can show you dozens of people who vote every election to limit your rights or eliminate them. They too say the same thing. In place of gun show insert: grocery store, walking your dog in this neighborhood, just running out quick to get gas, while fishing or hiking!
If you don't think they should be allowed to limit your right based on when and where they think you should be allowed to defend yourself or exercise your rights, then why do you think you should be allowed to limit mine?
However, I do think that the owner or renter of the property should have the right to limit who ever they want for whatever reason.
Sigma 40 Blaster
New member
I don't have a problem with not CCW'ing into a gun show. There are people walking all over the place with guns in their hands, and hundreds of guns on display.
The density of people in a gun show (especially as packed as they've been lately) is far more likely to result in death or serious injury with a ND, far more likely than speeding through a school zone.
You cannot equate this situation to any other, it is a unique environment with a unique set of risk factors. It's not punishing anyone.
If there's an unsafe idiot at the shooting range there's usually enough room for me to identify that person and take appropriate action. If there's an unsafe idiot at a gun show walking around with a gun in hand, sweeping me with a loaded gun while checking holster fit or making sure a mag will seat I have no way to identify that particular idiot doing something unsafe.
I also have no way to ensure that some homicidal idiot did not chamber a round in a gun for sale just hoping the next idiot to touch it will pick it up and pull the trigger without checking. Then there's also the simple truth that not all people are as schooled on gun safety as they should be. Period.
I support concealed carry, concealed carry on campus, and even open carry. I do not believe in a nanny state but this is one special scenario where a 30.06 sign does not raise the hair on the back of my neck. If it's a double standard then so be it. The great thing about a capitalistic society is you get to choose where to spend your money.
The density of people in a gun show (especially as packed as they've been lately) is far more likely to result in death or serious injury with a ND, far more likely than speeding through a school zone.
You cannot equate this situation to any other, it is a unique environment with a unique set of risk factors. It's not punishing anyone.
If there's an unsafe idiot at the shooting range there's usually enough room for me to identify that person and take appropriate action. If there's an unsafe idiot at a gun show walking around with a gun in hand, sweeping me with a loaded gun while checking holster fit or making sure a mag will seat I have no way to identify that particular idiot doing something unsafe.
I also have no way to ensure that some homicidal idiot did not chamber a round in a gun for sale just hoping the next idiot to touch it will pick it up and pull the trigger without checking. Then there's also the simple truth that not all people are as schooled on gun safety as they should be. Period.
I support concealed carry, concealed carry on campus, and even open carry. I do not believe in a nanny state but this is one special scenario where a 30.06 sign does not raise the hair on the back of my neck. If it's a double standard then so be it. The great thing about a capitalistic society is you get to choose where to spend your money.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
One of the reasons I think carry is important is b/c cops can't be everywhere. I have yet to be to a gun show without a significant police presence.
I just don't view it as a place where security demand I carry. Besides, you know some people go by the "concealed is concealed" doctrine and there are probably dozens of guns ready to go if provocation should arise. If something goes down I am hiding behind a fat man and letting everyone else sort it out.
I just don't view it as a place where security demand I carry. Besides, you know some people go by the "concealed is concealed" doctrine and there are probably dozens of guns ready to go if provocation should arise. If something goes down I am hiding behind a fat man and letting everyone else sort it out.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Never seen 'em fire up an excavator at a Construction equipment show
Somehow the thought of someone losing their membership for poppin an AD in someones spine is small comfort
OK gun Show...its there for gun handling and fondling..ammo and guns are on the same table. Normal safety rules are routinely violated in a crowded atmoshere. Add that the venues often are public, and insurance requirements and I wont get my panties in a knot over a no loaded guns rule
WildbutimalibrememberAlaska TM
Somehow the thought of someone losing their membership for poppin an AD in someones spine is small comfort
OK gun Show...its there for gun handling and fondling..ammo and guns are on the same table. Normal safety rules are routinely violated in a crowded atmoshere. Add that the venues often are public, and insurance requirements and I wont get my panties in a knot over a no loaded guns rule
WildbutimalibrememberAlaska TM
orionengnr
New member
Or three or four every aisle, would be more like it.
CONCEALED carry
My understanding was that we were talking about concealed carry by those who have a permit to concealed carry. Again, if you don't think these people should be able to conceal carry than you should visit your state laws on the requirements.
I've never seen anyone un-holster a gun at a gun show to try out a holster. Of course, as I always tell my wife, "No I have NOT been to enough gun shows."
My understanding was that we were talking about concealed carry by those who have a permit to concealed carry. Again, if you don't think these people should be able to conceal carry than you should visit your state laws on the requirements.
I've never seen anyone un-holster a gun at a gun show to try out a holster. Of course, as I always tell my wife, "No I have NOT been to enough gun shows."