Gun show carry ban??? Support or not?

Do you support the prohibition on loaded firearms inside an organized gun show? Why?

  • Total voters
    155
  • Poll closed .
Ban guns at gun shows because you don't need it and somebody might do something stupid, ban guns in police departments, court houses, federal buildings, etc, because you don't need them and somebody might do something stupid, ban guns at "large public gatherings" because they're well controlled, you don't need a gun and somebody might do something stupid, ban guns in bars and other places that serve alcohol because somebody might do something stupid..... seeing a pattern here? Anyone?
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You seem to be making one argument based on unrelated arguments. "Slippery slope" arguments are weak at best. Especially when specific criteria is being discussed. At a gun show you ARE on private property, it IS a place where accidents are very likely to occur, and it IS NOT a huge inconvenience or affront to your rights to be restricted from carrying a loaded weapon since you are not required to be there. Add that to the fact that the promoter of the show is providing you more than adequate protection while attending, of your own personal volition, the event and you have no reason to complain.
 
No. I refuse to enter or become a vendor at shows that disallow the carrying of loaded weapons. There is one show in two weeks that only allows LE with badge to carry loaded. I am not a vendor at that show because of this policy. I do not patronize establishments that disarm me.
 
At a gun show you ARE on private property,
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"Private property" only works in certain places. NY is not a place where the owner of private property can ban firearms.

it IS a place where accidents are very likely to occur,
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Not if there was severe enough punishment for violations. See the difference between banning cars in school zones and restricting their use.

and it IS NOT a huge inconvenience or affront to your rights to be restricted from carrying a loaded weapon since you are not required to be there.
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Ah! Yet another requirement. "Not required to be there."

So, no guns:

On private property
Where there are likely to be accidents
Anywhere that it's "not a huge inconvenience"
Where other "substantial protection" is provided
Anywhere you are "not required to be".

Anything else?
 
Yes... but only because of the number of accessories available at a gun show that entice a carrier to unholster and try something out.

If everyone could magically guarantee that their CARRY gun will stay in the holster unless someone truly needed shooting, I'd have no problem.

But that ain't gonna happen.

I feel kinda sheepish about this because the parallel to the anti-argument regarding schools is so eerily similar though...:o
 
I should add to my earlier input that here in NC it does not matter as you cannot carry into any venue where admission is charged. Including gunshows.
 
People tend to let the rules of safe gun handling slip at gun shows. Too many guns laying around to look at, too many accessories to try and too big of an opportunity for someone to say "You think that's a nice 1911, take a look at mine." BANG!

I'm not saying that all or even a few CCW holders are unsafe, but again, with so many unloaded guns around, people let their guard down at gun shows.

For example,I've had a shotgun pointed inches away from my head at a show a few years ago. Would that gentleman handled that gun differently had he knew, or even thought it was loaded? I guess that he would have. To my knowledge however, he didn't even check to see if it was unloaded, he just picked it up and mounted on his shoulder at my head assuming it wasn't loaded.

Loaded guns and gun shows just don't mix.
 
I support the ban on loaded guns at the gun show for a couple of reasons:
  1. The idiot factor is high with some. Finding THE holster that they have been looking for + forgeting the gun is loaded = NG
  2. Chances of assaults/robberies are very low at a gun show. Add to that at least in the Houston area, every 5th person at the show is LE anyway.
  3. People selling/buying guns in the aisles aren't always as careful as they should be about muzzle discipline. I've been swept way too many times to even consider that the gun might be loaded.
  4. How long does it take to reload after leaving the show? If you don't have a pocket knife they'll cut the strap on your gun for you as you leave if you ask.

A database of "losers" as suggested earlier wouldn't work in Texas, no id required to enter the show even if you are carrying guns to sell. Add to that, you start asking for ID at the fun show and you'll probably lose 60% of the patrons.

Joat
 
I've seen more unsafe handling of firearms by cops than any other profession. The last person on earth I'd trust handling a gun is a cop.

A cop swept me with the muzzle once. "Don't worry it's not..."BANG as he shot the gun and struck the water bottle I was holding in my hand. Next thing I remember there were four guys trying to pull me off of him.
 
If everyone could magically guarantee that their CARRY gun will stay in the holster unless someone truly needed shooting, I'd have no problem.
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Magic? I don't think it requires magic. My gun magically stays in it's holster every minute of every day, everywhere I go. Of course, if I want a holster then I'll buy the one that says "Glock 33" or "Subcompact Glock" and I'll have no over riding urge to pull out my loaded gun in public to make sure it fits. Then again, I'm not an idiot.


I feel kinda sheepish about this because the parallel to the anti-argument regarding schools is so eerily similar though...
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That alone should tell you that you're on the wrong side of the argument.



Severe penalties stop every one except the crazies, with the occasional rare except. NOTHING stops the crazies. This is true regardless of the topic at hand.
 
I feel kinda sheepish about this because the parallel to the anti-argument regarding schools is so eerily similar though...
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I do not see the similarities. There is no heavy police presence in schools, it is a public funded facility, and there is no active handling or trading of firearms or accessories.
 
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but when I get there I have to leave my gun in the car...
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Not what the question was.......carry your gun, it just can't be LOADED. There are too many yahoos, thefts, mishandling, and unsafe gun handling
 
I'm ambivalent.
I do not support banning legal carry for personal defense.
I am pretty hard line about it.
Any place where guns are not allowed is a good place to start trouble for a BG.

HOWEVER,
There are a LOT of NUTS at a gun show.
With that look in their eyes like a zombie on crack. :)
Gun shows just tend to draw them out.
Couple that with the police presence and it's not so bad that all guns are unloaded.

I really have a problem with those orange wire ties through the barrel, though.
You have to cut them off to even see if the gun will cycle or not.
The dealers will readily cut them off for you anytime you ask.
So what good are they?
 
The dealers will readily cut them off for you anytime you ask.
So what good are they?
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Determined criminals tend to avoid gun shows.

Idiots that are careless? Not so much.

The cable tie keeps the careless idiot in a safer condition. It does not deter the criminal. The criminal is deterred by the half dozen police officers present, the armed table owners and the ornery clientelle of the show that is heavy on veterans.

I do not see the similarities. There is no heavy police presence in schools, it is a public funded facility, and there is no active handling or trading of firearms or accessories.
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The argument against carry at gun shows is similar to the argument against carry at schools because it builds on the "what if" fever and focuses on safety and prevention rather than accountability.

I do know that if loaded guns were expressly allowed for everyone at gun shows, I either wouldn't go, or I would get downright nasty on each and every person that swept me or someone with me with a muzzle. Right now I defensively move myself out of the way and leave it at that. With the REAL potential rather than the traditional rule that the gun is loaded, I'll be banging some safe gun handling into everyone that raises a gun.

And frankly, it's impossible NOT to sweep someone at a gunshow. The tables are all surrounded by people. You either keep it pointed at the ground, or at the ceiling... but it is horizontal on the table. The second it comes off the table it sweeps someone. When the customer is inspecting the gun, he may raise the sights to the far corner of the room and sweep 50 people.

I guess I still come down on "hell, no!" because I don't like being swept, but I know it's unavoidable. Just seen too many ND's to be comfortable with loaded guns in the facility when those guns are in the hands of hobbyists. The table owners and police are OK in my book because they aren't there to shop and swap tall tales... their guns are there to discourage crime/violence/theft.

This argument could be presented to IDPA, IPSC, CASS and the other handgun competitions, BTW. From what I understand (and it's completely possible I'm wrong...), they absolutely do not allow loaded pistols anywhere except on the firing line. You can't load your SAA at a CASS shoot or carry gun at IPSC until you are right on the firing line. When you leave the line you have to unload and clear.
 
I voted "Yes, I support."

There are huge numbers of novices and people unfamiliar with firearm safety milling about. I don't trust them.

I know I'm going to heaven, but I'm hoping to see some grandkids first. :)
 
The table owners and police are OK in my book because they aren't there to shop and swap tall tales... their guns are there to discourage crime/violence/theft.
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My gun is there for the same reason, and my gun comes out of it's holster for the same reason, and no other reason.

Punish the idiots, not everybody.
 
What does an idiot look like? I have 20 yrs as a LEO and can tell you they look
like anybody else...how do you separate the wheat from the chaff? Don't you think that if there was an easy way that somebody wouldnt be doing it right now? You talk about heavy fines will prevent everything...Im here to tell you that don't keep people from doing dumb stuff(even right in the courtroom). And then you will always have the ones that have determined to them self that what ever rule just don't apply to them and they will carry loaded anyway....you yourself have in your posts
built up a self justification as to why it don't apply to you, and would likely
be one to go ahead and do it(after all your not one of those idiots they ment, right?)
 
Yes, I support the policy of only allowing unloaded firearms into a gun show...

the crowds are pretty heavy / there is plenty of security around - and it makes for a safer show when folks may be picking up / looking at guns they are not familiar with.

I don't care if the shows are public, private, sales to/between members only ... it makes me nervous when a lot of people are handling guns when they may have little or no experience with them / folks are often on all sides of the tables - and inexperienced folks may be sweeping any number of people in the crowd without realizing it - so I think its a good and a smart policy.
 
"Private property" only works in certain places. NY is not a place where the owner of private property can ban firearms.
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Oooh, now THAT irks me. No offense to probably 80% of the members here (and I know that offense will be taken) but the number one thing that bugs the living daylights out of me about the 'gun nut' crowd is their constant bantering and going on about their rights rights rights, but have no problem trampling on others rights to get to their goal, such as ignoring "no guns" signs posted on the door and what have you. Say what you will (and this doesn't count towards places that have guns banned because the state government says so) but the owner of a private business has every RIGHT to not allow guns in his or her store, or loaded carry pieces in their gunshow, if that's their perogative. It is then YOUR RIGHT not to patronize such places, but NOT your RIGHT to ignore the signs and go in anyway. This is because no one (save the feds :P) have a right to trespass, and that's exactly what you are doing should you carry into a place with a non firearm policy.
 
Oooh, now THAT irks me. No offense to probably 80% of the members here (and I know that offense will be taken) but the number one thing that bugs the living daylights out of me about the 'gun nut' crowd is their constant bantering and going on about their rights rights rights, but have no problem trampling on others rights to get to their goal, such as ignoring "no guns" signs posted on the door and what have you. Say what you will (and this doesn't count towards places that have guns banned because the state government says so) but the owner of a private business has every RIGHT to not allow guns in his or her store, or loaded carry pieces in their gunshow, if that's their perogative. It is then YOUR RIGHT not to patronize such places, but NOT your RIGHT to ignore the signs and go in anyway. This is because no one (save the feds :P) have a right to trespass, and that's exactly what you are doing should you carry into a place with a non firearm policy.
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A cooly rational response to this argument is:

What if I have a sign at my place of business that said one of these:
-No blondes allowed
-Sick people prohibited
-No illegal aliens allowed
-Your skin must be this white to ride this ride

Or, if you don't like comparing physical characteristics to carried articles:
-No purses allowed
-No shirts allowed
-No canes allowed
-No wheelchairs allowed

If you're open to "the public" and it's legal to carry "in public" then I don't believe you have authority to discriminate against "the public" for anything other than behavior.

However... I still disapprove of live loaded guns at gunshows simply due to the muzzle sweep issue.
 
The argument against carry at gun shows is similar to the argument against carry at schools because it builds on the "what if" fever and focuses on safety and prevention rather than accountability.
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"What if" scenarios are only valid when the necessary conditions exist to make them likely. If they are not likely the scenario does not justify any action. In the case of a gun show the chance of a mishap is very likely...that is not the case with schools so those two topics are not similar.
 
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