First Starbucks

MDA is certainly using all the ammunition we give them. Even though Longdon's allegations appear to be false, there's plenty else for them to use.

Incidentally, OCT has revised their guidelines for open-carry "best practices," including these bits:

3) Carry the long gun on a sling, not held.
4) Do not go into corporate businesses without prior permission, preferably not at all.
5) If asked to leave, do so quietly and do not make it a problem.
6) Do not post pics publicly if you do get permission and are able to OC in a cooperate business.
 
Open Carry Texas said:
6) Do not post pics publicly if you do get permission and are able to OC in a cooperate business.
This sums it up right here; they're pretty much acknowledging that these pictures are bad PR and are hurting our cause. Which begs the question: Why don't they encourage people to stop these kinds of protests altogether? But instead, they're just asking them to make sure they get permission first:

http://bearingarms.com/really-open-carry-groups-arent-stopping-long-gun-carry-businesses/

But you can't tell from a picture if the protesters got permission, you also can't always tell if they're scaring people and being disruptive. And even if the protesters don't take pictures, anyone else can; pretty much everyone carries a camera in their pocket these days. And so, no matter how hard you try to control it, you're always going to get pictures like this one, where peaceful protesters were played like fools:


open-carry-texas-facebook.png



Many people just don't seem to understand that we're losing this fight simply because it's so easy to photograph these protests and use the resulting pictures against us. They can complain about the anti-gun media being deceitful all they want, but pictures of these protests are going to continue to be spread around the internet, and anti-gun folks will keep using them in their efforts to further restrict our gun rights. The only thing we can do is stop giving them anything to take a picture of in the first place.
 
I know that and you know that, but this incident will be used to stereotype TX gun owners for a long time to come.
 
It is well known that a vivid and memorable incident drives folks evaluations of situations and risks as compared to some statistical chart.

Two bizarre looking and threatening grinning $_)#()_# will stick in the minds of those who aren't in our choir more than most.

Went to the movies yesterday - if the grinning doofus came into the theater holding the gun the way he did - well, Holmes and Aurora or RKBA. Only your situational awareness can take the time to decide this. I note OC fans have Spiderman like situational awareness at all times. :rolleyes:
 
JohnKSa said:
I know that and you know that, but this incident will be used to stereotype TX gun owners for a long time to come.
And it's a basic reality that image, credibility, and reputation can be lost in an instant and then be many orders of magnitude more difficult to restore.
 
Quick question for those who live in a open carry state, do you have these stupid demonstrations there? Or another way to put it, does anyone carry long guns into McDonald's to get their happy meal?
 
It appears Ms. Watts has been emboldened by her success. She's now going after Chili's and Sonic. Both chains appear to be waffling on the issue.

If someone wants to make sure they side with Ms. Watts, feel free to stage a demonstration of our rights in one of their locations.
 
To be brutally honest, I have a sneaking suspicion that for some of these people open carry in such a confrontational manner has little to do with concern for personal rights and liberties and a lot to do with pandering to a personal exhibitionist streak.

Exactly.
 
What does holding your revolver, outside its holster have to do with open carry. They would be better served by keeping them holstered.


Unfortunately, (as you know all to well) trying to talk to them about it goes like this:

What does....

YOU'RE AN ANTI!

No.. I just... What does holding your revolver...

YOU'RE THE ENEMY OF FREEDOM!

...outside of its holster have to do with...

GO BACK TO BED WITH SARAH BRADY! WOLF! WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING!

I think there might be better wa....

GO LIVE IN RUSSIA YOU COMMIE! THE 2A IS ALL I NEED! THE 2A IS MY GUN PERMIT! COMMIE!
 
Unfortunately, (as you know all to well) trying to talk to them about it goes like this:

What does....

YOU'RE AN ANTI!

No.. I just... What does holding your revolver...

YOU'RE THE ENEMY OF FREEDOM!

...outside of its holster have to do with...

GO BACK TO BED WITH SARAH BRADY! WOLF! WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING!

I think there might be better wa....

GO LIVE IN RUSSIA YOU COMMIE! THE 2A IS ALL I NEED! THE 2A IS MY GUN PERMIT! COMMIE!


Right on Brian. Sad, but true!
 
Brian: That hypothetical conversation is pretty much all I've been seeing lately from many of the people who support these protests (just read Tom's link above for a perfect example). These people just can't get it though their thick skulls that we don't want to ban or restrict open carry, in fact it's exactly the opposite: We want to preserve the rights that these people are working so hard to undermine with their stupid protests.
 
hese people just can't get it though their thick skulls that we don't want to ban or restrict open carry
Yes they can. They're just being willfully obtuse. That's what annoys me the most.

I've had open-carry people tell me in a coy tone that they don't understand why someone would be freaked out at the sight of someone walking into a suburban restaurant with a rifle over his shoulder. C'mon...nobody's that stupid.

I don't want it banned, but I really want to see this stupid trend go away. I understand that the millenials are obsessed with being the center of attention, but when they get bored and move on to some other sort of antic, the rest of us are left to deal with the aftermath of their misdeeds.
 
Yes they can. They're just being willfully obtuse. That's what annoys me the most.
Based on some of the logically bankrupt diatribe I've encountered from otherwise very rational, logical-thinking and well-informed persons, I have come to the conclusion that these activists approach open carry as if they are fundamentalists and open carry is their religion.

In other words, they have been inculcated (or have inculcated themselves) with a system of beliefs related to open carry and are completely unwilling/unable to apply logic, rationality or readily available and verifiable information to those beliefs if to do so would cast those beliefs in a negative light. That's true even when they are more than capable of doing so with other topics.

For example, I encountered an open-carry supporter, a person who is in many other respects remarkably logical, rational and well-informed. He was able to go so far as to admit that the particular actions of these specific persons involved in the Chipotle incident were ill-advised (which actually surprised me) but appeared to be almost bewildered as to why the restaurant "over-reacted" and why the gun community was irate with these persons who, in his estimation, simply blundered in a way that we should all be able to understand, empathize with and therefore readily forgive.

In another example, I engaged in an exchange with several open-carry supporters. My position was that open-carry should be done prudently to avoid alienating people and creating an atmosphere which could be readily used to drive anti-gun legislation. That position was, to say the least, not popular. Rational persons should have immediately realized how disturbing it is for anyone to argue against someone recommending prudence and yet that point seemed to be completely lost on them.

Finally, at one legal seminar, I watched several open-carry proponents buttonhole a speaker after his presentation and babble nonsense about the law and open carry until the speaker was forced to make an awkward escape. I found just watching the scene to be very distressing since the speaker they were "educating" was a lawyer who donates time to the TSRA.

Once it's understood that these folks are fundamentalists in the religion of open carry, it explains why exchanges tend to be peppered with cliché-type responses which are often poorly thought through, illogical, or simply (and often obviously) fallacious and why "debates" generally result in vitriolic attacks on anyone with the temerity to speak out against their "religion". You are debating, they are evangelizing. You are discussing the facts, they are promoting and defending their religion. You are reasoning with them, they are trying to explain to you why you're going to hell and how you can be saved.
 
[He] appeared to be almost bewildered as to why the restaurant "over-reacted" and why the gun community was irate with these persons who, in his estimation, simply blundered in a way that we should all be able to understand, empathize with and therefore readily forgive.
Right, because heaven help a company who tries to put a stop to a deviant behavior (here it comes...) that's causing a deluge of complaints from its customers.

It gets even worse when the company just tries to defuse the situations and the "gun people" deluge them with letters and calls disparaging their products, services, and business model.
 
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