First Starbucks

In the wake of mass shootings in AZ, CO, and CT gun rights are expanding. Yet gun and ammo prices are going up. If these open carry protests have a hidden agenda then isn't it possible that the agenda could be to accept higher prices in a climate where they should be dropping? I'm not suggesting that this is true, only that it could be as true as any other conspiracy theory.
 
What I'm saying is that we have to be very careful how we go about this
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I'll go one step further and say that we need to simply stop doing it at all. I've yet to hear of any positive change coming from the open carry of long guns. Nothing.

Yet I can point out numerous instances of negative change stemming from the practice.
 
Mainah said:
In the wake of mass shootings in AZ, CO, and CT gun rights are expanding. Yet gun and ammo prices are going up. If these open carry protests have a hidden agenda then isn't it possible that the agenda could be to accept higher prices in a climate where they should be dropping?
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What do open-carry protests have to do with high shooting supply prices? I don't see the connection, other than the argument that both are driven by a few irrational actors within the shooting community. :rolleyes:

Also, prices of new mass-market guns have dropped in my area, particularly the lower-end EBR's that were only fleetingly available at substantial markups last year. My local retailers are flush with these guns now, and they have so much 5.56 and 7.62 ammo that they're running sales to move it all; only .22LR, certain handloading components, and cheap 9mm and .380 FMJ practice ammo are still scarce and expensive.
 
Tom Servo said:
Theohazard said:
What I'm saying is that we have to be very careful how we go about this
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I'll go one step further and say that we need to simply stop doing it at all. I've yet to hear of any positive change coming from the open carry of long guns. Nothing.
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No, I meant we need to be very careful about how we advocate for open carry, period. I agree that open carry demonstrations with long guns is a terrible idea. I also think that any kind of open carry demonstration inside a private establishment is a not a very good idea either. In my opinion, even the polite, well-organized, handgun-only open-carry demonstrations tend to hurt our cause in most places.
 
Mainah said:
If these open carry protests have a hidden agenda then isn't it possible that the agenda could be to accept higher prices in a climate where they should be dropping
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I'm with carguychris: I have no idea what you're getting at and I can't see what the connection could be.
 
Count me with the crowd that says "I support open carry, but draw the line at longguns" - longguns are carried, not holstered, so the fear that the sheeple feel is actually legit / warranted, unlike with a holstered handgun. Bad idea to take long guns into public places, unless it's a gun-related type place, and even then...

but I don't understand when people simply want to push the issue.
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I fully understand 'pushing the issue' but am against pushing it too far. This is too far (longguns).
 
Unlicensed Dremel said:
Count me with the crowd that says "I support open carry, but draw the line at longguns"
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Do you think open carry of long guns should be illegal, or do you just think it's a bad idea in most cases? Because I assume you mean the latter, in which case I agree. And I think we need to emphasize that.

Too many open carry activists seem to think we're advocating a ban on some (or all) types of open carry, and -- for most of us -- nothing could be further from the truth. I don't open carry myself, but I fully support peoples' right to do so. I think it's a right that should be protected, and therefore it should be exercised wisely: Otherwise we'll lose the right altogether.
 
Do you think open carry of long guns should be illegal, or do you just think it's a bad idea in most cases?
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No, but if they keep it up, it may become illegal. See: California.

Too many open carry activists seem to think we're advocating a ban on some (or all) types of open carry, and -- for most of us -- nothing could be further from the truth.
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That's their cheap rhetorical device: if I don't support what they're doing, I'm not part of the cause. I believe the term is "Fudd."

Of course, most of them aren't involved with RKBA activism of any constructive sort. In fact, many of those I've spoken with aren't even part of the NRA because the NRA lacks the ideological purity them claim to have.

So they stage their stunts, which accomplish nothing useful. Then they cry traitor at those of us who advise discretion and focus on the things that do work.
 
There is surprisingly little notice taken here of the minimal nature of Chipoltle's action: they have "politely requested." No ban, no signage. The radio reports I heard made it clear that legal concealed carry is not the target, just the display mode loonies. They have asked the loonies to be loony elsewhere.

Can the loonies drive Chipoltle to stronger, even draconian, action? Without doubt, and I will not be surprised when they do.
 
Well You should all just give up then. I mean it, if even you guys who all seem to fully understand the situation inside and out are going to jump on them then there is no saving it right?
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This amounts to saying: "The way I want to do it is the only right way. If you won't play by my rules then you might as well just give up now."

The reality is that the gun rights groups, in conjunction with TSRA have been making steady progress towards expanding gun rights in TX. In fact, there have been pro-gun bills passed in nearly every TX legislative session since 1995.

TSRA was going to make a push for handgun open carry in the upcoming legislative session and, based on their past track record, there was a good chance that they would get something passed within the next 4 years. I seriously doubt that the publicity generated so far by this kind of activism is going to further that goal. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the plans to try to introduce some open carry bills have changed, or will be changed as a direct result of this campaign and its unintended (but easily foreseen) consequences.

I have no problem with Chipotle's request and it's hard for me to imagine that there are many businesses who would have done otherwise. Anything that alarms, disturbs or irritates customers is almost certain to draw a negative response from the business owner.
So they stage their stunts, which accomplish nothing useful.
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I'd be happy if the extent of it was to "accomplish nothing useful". Unfortunately, instead of just accomplishing nothing useful, this is doing real harm.
... am against pushing it too far. This is too far (longguns).
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For a little perspective, a number of the local shooting ranges will ban you from the range if you walk in with an uncased firearm. I don't understand why people think that a restaurant should be more tolerant of people carrying uncased firearms than a shooting range is.
 
I just don't see any point in open carry other than flaunting an "in-your-face, I'm wearing a big bad gun and there's nothing you can do about it" attitude.

Open carrying a side-arm while hiking in the remote wilderness - yeah, maybe. While sipping coffee in some urban Starbucks??? Seriously? To me, that's like carrying a 4-barrel carburetor on your hip while playing a round of golf at your bosses country club. Try that and see how fast you are asked to leave!
 
John is so right. Two of the big issues in TX are open carry and campus carry. Displays such as this will help sink any reasonable legislation.

The proponents of such demonstrations have no idea about shaping public opinion. It is pure narcissism in their actions.
 
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There was no demonstration. (...) And that is all there was to it until MDA pushed Chipotle with their paid for media outlet who put up these really representative images of these "other people".

I never said this was part of a demonstration. OCT has, however, encouraged people to do this by their prior actions.

It doesn't matter how MDA spun it; it wouldn't have been an issue if those two people hadn't given them the ammo.
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They can call it what they want, but if they bring long guns into a restaurant, they're demonstrating. We know. They know it. Everyone knows it.

They've effectively killed their chances for positive legislation this year. Smooth move guys.
 
Do you think open carry of long guns should be illegal, or do you just think it's a bad idea in most cases? Because I assume you mean the latter, in which case I agree. And I think we need to emphasize that.
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I grew up with kids and adults with long guns being a non issue and a common site in rural environments or the back of every pickup truck. But no idiot would ever bring a rifle into a restaurant.

Frankly its making me rethink my position. Have people's brains gone so soft that they've lost all sense and manners.
 
The two geniuses are being used already in critiques of self-defense oriented carry.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...round/?_php=true&_type=blogs&ref=opinion&_r=0

The Detroit chief is brave to take his stand, so they throw the Chipolte incident in his face.

Even so, the last thing that hard pressed city needs right now, with its wasteland tracts of abandoned neighborhoods, is to become a magnet for gun enthusiasts flaunting their weapons, however legally.
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That quote doesn't make sense - although it would amuse me to see those two guys wander around in in Detroit's worst neighborhoods. Very brave to posture in Starbucks or in front of soccer moms.
 
"Even so, the last thing that hard pressed city needs right now, with its wasteland tracts of abandoned neighborhoods,"

So, if they're "flaunting" their guns in abandoned neighborhoods, who's to see, or care?

Them thar people ain't too smart.
 
zincwarrior said:
They can call it what they want, but if they bring long guns into a restaurant, they're demonstrating. We know. They know it. Everyone knows it.



They've effectively killed their chances for positive legislation this year. Smooth move guys.
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Fortunately for the good people of the Lone Star state, the next legislative session is not until 2015. It will give things a chance too cool down.
 
Fortunately for the good people of the Lone Star state, the next legislative session is not until 2015. It will give things a chance too cool down.
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Or on the other hand, it gives the in-your-face fanatics seven more months to make things worse.
 
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