Feeling Undergunned
- Thread starter Joe_Pike
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The Verminator
Moderator
I'm a little skeptical about this notion of carrying two guns of two different kinds.
It flagrantly violates the K.I.S.S. principle.
If I were to feel a need to carry two guns (which I don't) they would be two guns of the same kind and using the same ammo and mag or speed loader.
Anytime you start mixing and matching guns it increases the possibility of things going wrong.
You also will likely maintain your highest skill level training with just one type of weapon, be it revolver or semi-auto.
It flagrantly violates the K.I.S.S. principle.
If I were to feel a need to carry two guns (which I don't) they would be two guns of the same kind and using the same ammo and mag or speed loader.
Anytime you start mixing and matching guns it increases the possibility of things going wrong.
You also will likely maintain your highest skill level training with just one type of weapon, be it revolver or semi-auto.
Dragline45
New member
Check the small thin 9mm's that have been hitting the market. A S&W Shield, Walther PPS, or the new Ruger LC9s are great choices for an easily concealed 9mm.
OldMarksman
Staff
Posted by The Verminator:
I think there is merit to that line of thinking.
I make it a habit of carrying the same kind of handgun very day, in the same location (but sometimes IWB rather than OWB). It is a simple semi-auto, with only a grip safety.
However, when I carry a second firearm as backup, it is a concealed hammer DA revolver, carries in a vest pocket holster, weak hand side.
The thing is so simple to use that I'm not very concerned about anything going wrong. The advantage is pocket carry--and the ability to fire from the pocket, if need be.
The semi-auto is to be used as a "last" resort, and the revolver, as a last resort.
I think there is merit to that line of thinking.
I make it a habit of carrying the same kind of handgun very day, in the same location (but sometimes IWB rather than OWB). It is a simple semi-auto, with only a grip safety.
However, when I carry a second firearm as backup, it is a concealed hammer DA revolver, carries in a vest pocket holster, weak hand side.
The thing is so simple to use that I'm not very concerned about anything going wrong. The advantage is pocket carry--and the ability to fire from the pocket, if need be.
The semi-auto is to be used as a "last" resort, and the revolver, as a last resort.
Deaf Smith
New member
Massad Ayoob gave the wise advice that if you carry a backup gun it should be as simple, if not simpler, than the primary weapon.
Deaf
Deaf
OldMarksman
Staff
Deaf, I do not remember hearing that advice from Mas, but I agree with it.
The Verminator
Moderator
Well, if I were going into some dark and dangerous situation......(which I'm not).......and felt the need to carry two guns (which I don't)......
I'd carry my Glock 19 cross draw at 11 O'Clock and my Glock 26 right front pocket and a couple of G17 mags in a vest pocket.
That way everything works the same and the big spare mags fit both guns.
I actually AM stupid, which is why I insist on Keep It Simple Stupid always.
Maybe that's not so stupid.
I'd carry my Glock 19 cross draw at 11 O'Clock and my Glock 26 right front pocket and a couple of G17 mags in a vest pocket.
That way everything works the same and the big spare mags fit both guns.
I actually AM stupid, which is why I insist on Keep It Simple Stupid always.
Maybe that's not so stupid.
Deaf Smith
New member
OldMarksman,
Here is a bunch of Ayoob's on backup guns.
http://www.gundigest.com/article/concealed-carry-should-you-carry-a-back-up-gun-part-1
http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carry-news/concealed-carry-should-you-carry-a-backup-gun-part-2
http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carry-news/concealed-carry-should-you-carry-a-backup-gun-part-2/3
http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carry-news/concealed-carry-should-you-carry-a-backup-gun-part-2/4
On the fifth part he says, "The backup gun should be simple to operate under extreme stress."
And The Massad Ayoob Chronicles, Part I
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/brad-kozak/the-massad-ayoub-chronicles-part-i/
Also he said in Massad Ayoob’s Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry.
“Civilians” and police officers alike have found that while autos might be a better choice as primary weapons, revolvers may be preferable as backup because of faster access out of pockets due to their rounded grip-frames, or better resistance to dust and grit when carried in ankle holsters. Another advantage of the small revolver for backup comes in one of the applications mentioned earlier in this article, the use of the backup to arm another competent good guy or gal. You may not have time to explain to that person how your auto works or why they need to keep their weak side thumb out from behind the slide when you hand them your backup auto. However, anyone competent to wield a gun in a crisis situation will be competent to handle a double action only revolver when there is no time to explain the “manual of arms.”
But way back in my memory, I took LFI-1 from him, he wrote about having the backup gun as simple or simpler than their primary weapon, but NEVER more complex!
Deaf
Here is a bunch of Ayoob's on backup guns.
http://www.gundigest.com/article/concealed-carry-should-you-carry-a-back-up-gun-part-1
http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carry-news/concealed-carry-should-you-carry-a-backup-gun-part-2
http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carry-news/concealed-carry-should-you-carry-a-backup-gun-part-2/3
http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carry-news/concealed-carry-should-you-carry-a-backup-gun-part-2/4
On the fifth part he says, "The backup gun should be simple to operate under extreme stress."
And The Massad Ayoob Chronicles, Part I
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/brad-kozak/the-massad-ayoub-chronicles-part-i/
Also he said in Massad Ayoob’s Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry.
“Civilians” and police officers alike have found that while autos might be a better choice as primary weapons, revolvers may be preferable as backup because of faster access out of pockets due to their rounded grip-frames, or better resistance to dust and grit when carried in ankle holsters. Another advantage of the small revolver for backup comes in one of the applications mentioned earlier in this article, the use of the backup to arm another competent good guy or gal. You may not have time to explain to that person how your auto works or why they need to keep their weak side thumb out from behind the slide when you hand them your backup auto. However, anyone competent to wield a gun in a crisis situation will be competent to handle a double action only revolver when there is no time to explain the “manual of arms.”
But way back in my memory, I took LFI-1 from him, he wrote about having the backup gun as simple or simpler than their primary weapon, but NEVER more complex!
Deaf
OldMarksman
Staff
Deaf, I have read it, but memory failed me.
The paragraph you quoted about the DA revolver for backup makes perfect sense.
I do not aways carry a backup, but I know I should.
The paragraph you quoted about the DA revolver for backup makes perfect sense.
I do not aways carry a backup, but I know I should.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
The State of New Mexico allows ONE (1) handgun to be carried concealed.
You can carry one handgun concealed and an unlimited number open carried - as there is no restriction on the number of open carried guns.
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stephen426
New member
Sorry to hear about crime rising in your neighborhood. In reality, any time your are up against a team of thugs, you are at a serious disadvantage. You do not know if the guy on the corner is a by stander or a look out. I would resort to deadly force only if you really felt threatened at that moment. I know that compliance does not guarantee safety, but 2 or 3 on one isn't great odds either.
For your house, I would strongly recommend that you get a good alarm system and a big dog. While I know a scumbag would shoot a dog without giving it a second thought, the dog will still be a deterrent and reduce the chance of a surprise attack. Make sure your house is lit up and that you plant inhospitable plants such with thorns. Make sure there are no hiding spots where you may be easily ambushed. These preventative measures will make your house seem a lot less inviting and prevention is always better than a cure. Make sure you have good sturdy locks on your doors.
Make an emergency plan and try to create a safe room. This safe room should give the best tactical advantage and be the meeting place if the alarm goes off at night. As already suggested, a long gun such as an AR or AK would give you much better firepower and would tip the odds in your favor. A simple pump shotgun with buck shot followed by slugs is also a good option.
If you're out and about, keep your head on a swivel. Situational awareness is key to preventing problems, or stacking the odds in your favor at the very least. I like the idea of the Glock 26 since Glock 17 mags work for it.
Good luck and stay safe!
For your house, I would strongly recommend that you get a good alarm system and a big dog. While I know a scumbag would shoot a dog without giving it a second thought, the dog will still be a deterrent and reduce the chance of a surprise attack. Make sure your house is lit up and that you plant inhospitable plants such with thorns. Make sure there are no hiding spots where you may be easily ambushed. These preventative measures will make your house seem a lot less inviting and prevention is always better than a cure. Make sure you have good sturdy locks on your doors.
Make an emergency plan and try to create a safe room. This safe room should give the best tactical advantage and be the meeting place if the alarm goes off at night. As already suggested, a long gun such as an AR or AK would give you much better firepower and would tip the odds in your favor. A simple pump shotgun with buck shot followed by slugs is also a good option.
If you're out and about, keep your head on a swivel. Situational awareness is key to preventing problems, or stacking the odds in your favor at the very least. I like the idea of the Glock 26 since Glock 17 mags work for it.
Good luck and stay safe!
That is a consideration that needs to be taken into account. Having more ammo in the gun doesn't automatically mean you'll have the time (or live long enough) to be able to shoot it all. Gunfights usually don't last long.
However, it's a mistake to assume that will always be the case.
Deaf Smith
New member
OldMarksman,
I honestly pack my Glock 26 and one spare. I pack it daily. I might have my Saber pepper spray in the off side pocket but that's that.
I teach Taekwondo (my style.. JKD and Krav Maga with some kicking) on Tuesdays and work out twice a week other days, but I work out when I teach to.
So between all that I don't worry about the backup so much.
But what he says makes sense. I use Glocks and S&W Revolvers cause my wife, if she needs to, can handle them. No fancy safeties or anything to remember. Just point and click.
And gang, the State of Texas allows you to carry any number of guns as long as you can conceal them. No registration to! No maximum caliber (but places like Oklahoma won't allow you to pack a .50 cal... dang..)
Deaf
I honestly pack my Glock 26 and one spare. I pack it daily. I might have my Saber pepper spray in the off side pocket but that's that.
I teach Taekwondo (my style.. JKD and Krav Maga with some kicking) on Tuesdays and work out twice a week other days, but I work out when I teach to.
So between all that I don't worry about the backup so much.
But what he says makes sense. I use Glocks and S&W Revolvers cause my wife, if she needs to, can handle them. No fancy safeties or anything to remember. Just point and click.
And gang, the State of Texas allows you to carry any number of guns as long as you can conceal them. No registration to! No maximum caliber (but places like Oklahoma won't allow you to pack a .50 cal... dang..)
Deaf
You can pretty much throw out regular crime scenarios. These days you have to put in to the list of thing to prepare for, a group of ISIS sympathizers bustin' into your favorite mall with AK's. 18 rounds and a couple of backup magazines isn't going to ensure your survival but it just might keep you safe behind cover till the S.W.A.T. team shows up. Might save some lives by keeping the BG's busy too. After all, it's not like anyone is saying you need to militarize. More rounds available = better chance of a good outcome if the worst happens.
Are you not allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself in Canada. ?
You have no way of knowing that, what I do know that a handgun is no use without bullets.
But some do, if someone is carrying a firearm just in case then it makes sense not to rely on one magazine, just in case.
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A friend of mine used to carry a Para double stack 1911 and a H&K P7M8 with two extra magazines for each. He's since backed it down to a Hi Power Detective with extea magazines. I always wondered how he kept his pants up.
I'll end up either carrying a G26 with an extea mag or I'll add another j frame. Haven't decided yet.
I'll end up either carrying a G26 with an extea mag or I'll add another j frame. Haven't decided yet.