Feeling Undergunned

Thank you shoot !!!!! I appreciate your response !! But now that I have had time to think about it , I suppose 2 guns is all a person needs to carry !!!! 5 or 10 mags and if your a revolver man some speed loaders and practice is a lot less cumbersome !!!! I was just curious at first!!
 
We are allow to carry only the firearm listed on the permit.:confused: Silly, but that's the way it is....:mad:
 
Canada reminds me of what the Australian priminister said after the hostage crisis. He said that by disarming the public they made a country full of victims! !!
 
Review this discussion.

If you do not like the assumptions that John used, decide upon your own and run the numbers yourself.

Also, avail yourself of some good defensive pistol shooting training.

That and John's analysis put my J-Frame into a backup role some years ago.
 
JJ72:

Re: "...number of weapons you can carry?"

and

"We are allow to carry only the firearm listed on the permit. Silly, but that's the way it is...."

In the U.S., it depends upon which state you find yourself in; different states, different laws.

Where I live, if you have the Concealed Handgun License (CHL), you are allowed to carry as many as you can conceal.

Go here for more info:

www.handgunlaw.us

Re: The OP question, I usually opt for limited capacity and convenient carry. I may be naïve and, in fact, undergunned with my .32 Guardian, but I don't usually think about it much. I don't have a higher capacity weapon that's convenient or comfortable carry.

Maybe, Joe, you should consider relocating;).

W.
 
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I can relate on some level. I carried J-frames for a number of years and recently switched back over to semi autos. I didn't necessarily feel undergunned but figured I'd be better off with a gun that reloads quicker and has better sights. For me, the greatest and most practical advantage to having more ammo is less reloading when I'm training with my EDC.

ETA : Have you tried appendix carry? I can carry almost anything comfortably with a barrel smaller than 5 inches. Something like the G26 would be a breeze to carry all day in an AIWB holster.
 
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A 5-shot .38 J-frame is all any real shooter needs for the purposes of civillian self defense IMNSHO.

Model12,

Tom Givens of Rangemasters has had over 60 students in gunfight.

They have seen a significant increase in multiple robbery teams. Staking one's life on a 5 shot, slow to reload weapon he feels is not wise.

Yes I sometimes take my J Centennial when I go to the store but I now take my 26 Glock 90 percent of the time (and if the Glock 43 works out the the J Centennial might get its retirement papers.

Deaf
 
Joe, would you please tell us where you live.
And where we should not.
Appreciated.

If the greatest threat is from home invaders, maybe a different approach could be considered.
Long guns in very high capacity, along with the concealed handgun.

And you're not alone in rethinking the handgun capacity issue, either.
If your situation is any indication of future possibilites, maybe we're getting closer to the zombie apocalypse, rather than the lone drug addict looking for a quick score.
Plus the difficulty of those fast reloads as we age and our joints lose dexterity, especially in an adrenaline induced situation.
Having to crawl under the car for that dropped mag would be a really bad tactical move.

And, of course, plenty of training and practice on the subect, whatever you choose.
 
My advice is actually different from what I do, because your situation seems much more dangerous than mine.

For instance, my current EDC is a S&W BG380 (which I'm still trying to get the kinks worked out of). I'm a big believer in the .380 round, but if I was in a "combat zone", I'd feel more comfortable with a 9. And more capacity.

If I lived in your neighborhood I would feel under-gunned with a 5 shot revolver. I would probably choose your LCP over it because of slightly higher capacity and faster reloads. Others will prefer a revolver's perceived better reliability (which I don't agree with) and the .38's slightly better performance.

I was a revolver guy for 20 years and transitioned to autos. I never looked back. I like the capacity, fast reloads, and ruggedness. And they are so much more comfortable for me to carry.

Is there something a little smaller and thinner than your G26? Like a Ruger LC9? You can get a 9 round mag for it which will double your shots over your J frame, with a more powerful round.

I understand everyone's situation and preferences are different, but I can't imagine being in a dangerous neighborhood and feeling comfortable having to draw from a pocket. Is there any way you'd reconsider carrying in a proper holster? The hybrid Crossbreed or Old Faithful style really made a huge difference for me.

It may be a long process for you to find the perfect combination. But remember- few things are more fun than shopping for a new gun and accessories!

FWIW

David
 
They have seen a significant increase in multiple robbery teams.

Multiple robbery teams? Well in that case, give me an AK-74 with a few RPK-74 45 round magazines. If I'm ever in the situation where I'm being held hostage or attacked by "multiple robbery teams", I doubt that ANY concealable firearm would see one through and the best method for survival is to either comply or run.

In the meantime, my five shot S&W 642 .38 snub will be all the gun I'll need, at least where I am in semi-rural Kansas. The odds of being attacked to the point of needing to shoot is less than 1%. There was a study recently of where just the presentation of the gun was shown to cease hostilities in 95% of cases. When the balloon did go up and it was time to shoot, it was at night. It was three rounds fired, at a distance of three yards, in a time of three seconds.

Whatever you choose to believe, statistically speaking, a person is very much not "undergunned" with a 5 shot .38 snub IF they can connect with it, and trust me, I most certainly can. I train heavily with my choice, which is important whichever gun one chooses for the purposes of self defense, and no matter what the gun rags tell you it's actually MORE important to have good training than to carry the latest ultra high capacity wonder micro subcompact polymer plastic tactical spaceship semi-automatic pistol.
 
Posted by Model12Win:
In the meantime, my five shot S&W 642 .38 snub will be all the gun I'll need, at least where I am in semi-rural Kansas. The odds of being attacked to the point of needing to shoot is less than 1%.
Okay, but the likelihood of the occurrence does not influence what would be necessary to defend oneself should it occur. That's a very basic tenet of risk management.

Don't feel bad about that--I spent a major part of my career in risk management, and yet, for some time I carried a Centennial Airweight because I didn't expect to need it. Then someone pointed out the error of my thinking. If I am attacked, it will make absolutely no difference how likely that attack may have been.

The Ariweight now serves as backup.

There was a study recently of where just the presentation of the gun was shown to cease hostilities in 95% of cases.
I don't know about the 95%, but that would be the ideal solution.

When the balloon did go up and it was time to shoot, it was at night. It was three rounds fired, at a distance of three yards, in a time of three seconds.
Often quoted, often posted, but never attributed to a really objective source.

Think about it: in three seconds, an average advancing attacker would be able move about fifteen meters. At that rate, the defender would have been run through before firing a second shot.

That's why defensive trainers teach shooting three or four rounds in one second--or less.

Whatever you choose to believe, statistically speaking, a person is very much not "undergunned" with a 5 shot .38 snub IF they can connect with it, and trust me, I most certainly can.
"Connect" with it? "Connecting" would mean hitting one, or preferably several, of the vital parts of the anatomy that would likely effect a fast stop. Those targets are really quite small, moving, and concealed in the three dimensional envelope that is the attacker's body. No one I know would know where to aim, much less be able to hit, such a small part inside a twisting, bending, running, and weaving person. The only real chance one has is to fire several shots, very fast, and hope for a favorable stochastic outcome.

I train heavily with my choice, which is important whichever gun one chooses for the purposes of self defense, and no matter what the gun rags tell you it's actually MORE important to have good training than to carry the latest ultra high capacity wonder micro subcompact polymer plastic tactical spaceship semi-automatic pistol.
Do not confuse practicing aimed shooting at a fixed target at a square range, after you have planned to shoot it, with training for realistic defensive pistol shooting.

But yes, good training is extremely important.

Once you have signed up for it, and I strongly recommend doing so, you will likely find that the better instructors do not want you to bring either a snubbie revolver or a subcompact semi-auto.

There are a number of good courses available. I personally recommend Rob Pincus' Combat Focus Shooting (aka Dynamic Focus Shooting, at Gander Mountain Academy--they may have it in Wichita), but a course with Mas Ayoob or Tom Givens (see Deaf Smith's comment about him) would be excellent, too. They do travel. One can learn a lot from Claude Werner, but I'm not sure how accessible he is to you.

Training courses for snubbie revolvers have been offered for this who carry them for backup, but I'm told that lack of demand has made good courses very hard to find.

In the meantime, study John KSa's analysis linked in Post # 26.
 
Though the future can't be predicted, where you live and commute (i.e., a low crime, quasi-rural area vs a high crime, inner-city setting) can be a predictor of probabilities. Everything else being equal in terms of training, the number of assailants, their states of mind, etc., I see no downside to defending yourself with a weapon having a high(er) ammunition capacity and see plenty of advantages.

The notion that a five-shot revolver will carry you through every self-defense situation just because your training will allow you to be cool enough to plant a bullet between the eyes of every bad guy you encounter doesn't reckon with the reality of the adrenaline and emotions stirred up in the mind and attitude of anyone engaged in a real gunfight.

Thirty years of le and self-defense training has taught me that training is everything but also that no amount of training can ever prepare you for every eventuality nor can it be counted on to always keep you coldly accurate as you dodge bullets that are on their way to where you wear your hat. Some seem to forget that good training is just as applicable in terms of real life, self-defense performance to someone carrying a high-capacity auto as it is to someone depending on a J-frame to defend themselves.

As for the op's "dilemma", it seems to me that he will need to transition from "pocket carry" to an iwb or an owb holster set-up if he wants to realistically increase the capability of his self-defense handgun being carried concealed. There's only so much gun you can stuff into a pocket before it becomes grossly impractical.
 
Multiple robbery teams? Well in that case, give me an AK-74 with a few RPK-74 45 round magazines.

Model12,

I meant robbery teams with multiple members. Yes it is happening more. Mr. Givens showed that several of his students were accosted by 2 and three member teams.

It is happening.

Sure you might just encounter one person who has no heart in the fight but you can easily encounter a meth addict that is very desperate and very hard to stop, or like I said, more than one person at a time.

And that is where the 5 shot revolver kind of runs out of steam quickly.

Plus given the average hit rate that is documented for those involved in shootings, the 5 shot revolver might not even guarantee one hit.

Let me give you an example. Years ago I was at a Polite Society match in Memphis Tennessee at Rangemaster. Now their targets fall when hit, but it takes a good hit to make them fall and sometimes for lower powered rounds maybe 2 or three GOOD hits.

Well one of the shooters used a J frame .38. Engaging the targets, they were clothed targets that looked realistically as human, he opened fire with his .38. Fired all five... target stayed up, he tried to reload behind the car, fired five more... target unaffected.

Now it was a low light scenario and hard for him to make out where the 'A' zone was. But the target was not moving and no one was shooting at him.

He was declared 'dead' by the referee (not the target.. the shooter.)

It was enlightening to see how hard it is to shot a J frame .38 in low light, under pressure, and ill defined targets even thought they were not 4 yards away.

Yes I like my J frames (I have several) but I realistically do see a 7-8 shot single stack 9mm that is easier to shoot might be a wiser everyday choice.

Deaf
 
I have had two attempted break-ins at my house and there have been two murders in my neighborhood in the last year....and I live in a pretty GOOD neighborhood.

Joe.. I'm sorry to tell you, but you DO NOT live in a GOOD neighborhood!

This is coming from someone who has lived in some bad neighborhoods, been carjacked as a result (incidentally by a team of 3), and almost shot a couple times in both Savannah and Atlanta. If this is the reality of your neighborhood, then YES, you are definitely undergunned. I think, in your case, instead of a G26 it would be worth whatever effort it took to dress around and even larger/high capacity gun like a G19. Some of the older guys on here are living in quiet, rural, small town "Mayberry" places where a J-frame can apparently solve everything. However, those of us living in more urban environments, especially those outside major cities or within easy commute from high-crime areas, have to deal with a different reality and carry accordingly.
 
Well for some people who are short like me (5' 7"), carrying even a single stack 9mm (short of the $$$ R9) is nary impossible, especially during summer, and I don't like the .380 and prefer the reliability of revolvers vs small autos. All you experts go ahead and do what you see fit, but I'll be carrying my 642. It just works for me, and I hesitate to say it's better than a sharp stick though some might rather be armed with that considering the deridement. :rolleyes:

OP: You might find a small revolver fits you well and will be there when you need it. It's just an option, but don't think you are unarmed with one. That's all I have to say about that.
 
The great thing about the small semi-auto pistols is the reloads are fast and easy to carry. Having a couple spare mags on board is almost as good as a larger gun.
 
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