Birth control can help stop rapists

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just being a 'horny' male does not make a rapist. just being a violent male does not make a rapist. some sick twisted combination of violent 'horny' makes a rapist.
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Now it sounds like you're agreeing with me. :confused: That being the case, could you please explain how swimsuit ads contribute to rape. I'm still a bit unclear how sexual material has anything to do with violent crime.


I'll reiterate my point: A rapist is a violent sociopath that HAPPENS to use sex to control and hurt his victim. Removing his sex drive does nothing to flag his desire to cause harm.

Sex is merely a weapon. Take that away and it will be a knife or a bicycle chain.
 
Handy, i think we are saying the same thing, almost.

explain how swimsuit ads contribute to rape.
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all the sexual media creates sexual urges in us humans. it is designed scientifically to do such. anyone who disagrees with me on this can explain corporate advertising budgets and the phrase 'sex sells'. most of us have suitable outlets for these sexual urges.

some have no way to 'release' without violently forcing a member of the opposite sex to submit.

example:
some guy has little luck with the females. he has a border line hold on his desire to commit a violent sexual assault. now he is reading the newspaper and comes across the lingerie ads for foley's red apple sale. this introduces a twinge that pushes him over the edge and he no longer has the will to curb his desire to commit a violent sexual assault. he goes to the mall and waits outside in the foleys parking garage stairwell and woe be to his unsuspecting victim.
 
I have a bit of experience in dealing with sex offenders. Their drive is the abnormality. They don't desire to make love or procreate. They need to shame and abuse. They are not normal in their desire. Death while having sex is a great turn-on for sex offenders. They enjoy strangulation. Their capacity and desire for abuse of the victims both male and female is stupefying. I don't think the Black Dahlia rapist/abuser/dismemberment and body part display type of sex offender can be treated with an implant. Well, maybe a 45 caliber implant.
 
Redhawk, read what Sir William is telling you. Girlie pictures are not the turning point for a diseased mind. In most cases the rapist went around the corner because they felt they were snubbed.

Your thinking is the same logic that leads Muslim rape victims to be stoned to death. They "must have been responsible for attracting their attacker", right?


Human sexual urges are not governed by the environment, anyway. Men in countries with no naughty pictures and the women dressed like Jawas have no less libido than men in topless Maori society or American's with Cinemax. It simply doesn't work that way.
 
Right now there is no treatment or cure for child molestors and we have to keep them from touching another child again. The castration (whether it is chemical or surgical) has shown much promise though for child molestors. Of the few who have volunteered for it and received it, they have shown (so far) that their urges have gone away. I am no doctor but I think that most forms of chemical castration is irreversible. Surgical castration, obviously, is unreversible. But of course some molestors will still hurt kids even when their sexual urges have been suppressed (like that piece of s**t in Fla.).

Violent rape is another story. IMO most rapists have other motivations than just urges for commiting sex. theirs is more violence based (please note I said "more"). They have much worse problems to deal with long before they can prove to us as a society that they won't do it again. I just say, let them go free, tell their victims where they are and give the victims a lesson in sniping.
 
Handy, please don't get me wrong here. i am in no way trying to excuse anyones behaviour by saying the media made them do it.

i agree 100% with Sir William.

what i am saying is that as humans, we are all basically exactly the same save a few very minor details. the problem is in the software, not the hardware.

the only question i am posing is 'where did they get the software'?

when a child is born, they are capable of learning any language, they are cabable of learning anything. we all learn by repetitive imitation. some learn to be hockey players, some learn to be gymnists, some learn to be chess players, some learn to be homicidal pedophilic rapists. where do they learn this from?
 
Half of all child molestors were molested themselves. If we could put all current child molestors in jail then maybe the number of child molestations would drop 50% for future generations.


BTW- 20% nature 80% nurture IMHO
 
Couldn't have said it any better than Novus.


But I don't believe people are purely products of environment. Some people's wiring is wrong from the beginning. They torture animals other kids want to pet. They don't experience emotions that they should. People are complicated enough to be made broken, and broken once made.
 
People are complicated enough to be made broken, and broken once made.
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good one, Handy.

i guess what i am focusing on is what broke them once they were made.

regardless, i don't feel that drugs are going to fix them. just putting tape over the 'check engine' light.

maybe some can't be fixed, don't want to be fixed, or will just break again.

what to do then?
 
Right now there is no treatment or cure for child molestors and we have to keep them from touching another child again
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The Chair anyone?

Sorry, I'm a firm beleiver in the death penalty, and unfortunately with all the other trends in this country that are so liberally dealt with, the death penalty is not liberally handed out.
 
Chemical castration is a joke.

All they have to do is stop taking the medication and they are back to normal.

What is needed is physical castration but even that does not disarm the sexual predator. Hormone shots can keep them viable.

To effectively disarm them you need to do the entire job. That means castration, penisectomy, and prostatectomy.

Of course, the "blame the victim and empower the perp" crowd would never allow this to happen to these poor, misunderstood people.
 
Chemical imbalances. :barf:
My wife is a psych nurse, I am a cardiac nurse. We argue this point over and over. She says human behavior is caused by chemical imbalances. I believe she is wrong.
Some behavior is caused by chemical imbalances. A heart beating is caused by chemical imbalances. A diaphragm rising and falling is caused by chemical imbalances. A beer foaming is caused by chemical imbalances.

A man raping a woman is caused by a desire to inflict violence on another person using sex as a tool and it is exacerbated by a society that does not do anything but house and feed the offender for a few years. If you castrate the person, either with a knife or a chemical, he will merely turn to another tool for his violence. It is my belief that our society does not punish these offenders harshly or long enough. If a man was sure that he would swing from a tree at the end of a rope before the sun went down when he commited a rape, every one one of these offenders would find a way to manage their chemical imbalances. I would bet a months pay that if I lined up 100 sex offenders in front of their victim of choice and gave them the option of raping and dying immediately afterwards, or walking away, I would have zero takers.

The problem is impulse and desire control, not chemical imbalances. Chemical imbalances are an excuse for a problem society does not want to address emphatically. As a result, Pfizer pushes these chemical imbalance theories, sells more drugs, and makes the shareholders very happy. Pfizer is not in the business of helping society. They are in the business of making money. I don't buy the chemical imbalance line. If the human body had no chemical imbalances, synapses would not fire, blood would not circulate, oxygen would not be inspired, and life would cease. Even then, though, there would be chemical imbalances as the body decomposed. We are chemistry, and the nature of chemistry is imbalance.

Norplant is an implant. Depo Provera is not an implant. It is an injection with a half life of about 90 days. During this 90 day period, your parolee is thinking of a way to avoid the next injection. Don't expect him to be back for his shot in 90 days. Over half of the schizophrenics on Prolixin D never show up for their shot the following month. They are seen by the health care system again when they are injured or are to ill to continue on the streets. These schizophrenics want to stop their hallucinations, yet they still avoid the medication that will do it. The sex offender does not want to stop their behavior, nor do they want the shot. How sucessful do you think this would be?

There are two methods of insuring that a rapist will no longer impart violence on society. Incarcerate them for life, or execute them. Anything else places society at risk.
 
It is mostly a defect in their rsponse to stimul. Abuse? Maybe. If that is ALL there were to it, we should have many catholic rapists as many as were molested by priests. I can't prove a cause and effect link. The fact is, some people are not right, they don't feel emotions as we do and they have always been a bit off center. They simply are not like the normal person. A treatment program might have been effective if it was begun before puberty. If we as a society would admit that some people are damaged goods from birth and that intervention should begin as early as possible then, we might prevent some crimes. I have had dealings with sex offenders as young as 6 y/o. The home was a good one, there were siblings, there was no financial distress and no abuse history. A 6 y/o was extremely warped in his ideas of sex, pleasure, violence and had 0 problem with acting out his warped fantasies. He was brought to MH/MR counselors attention as he was drawing graphic images of sex with death. Nobody else in his family has any odd behaviours. There is also a pre-teen female from another "good" home and environment who drew graphic images of stabbing her friends. According to her, she was going to kill her friends while they were pure virgins. There are a greater number of off center kids and adults than we want to be aware of. I noted the almost 40 year Boy Scoout career executive who was checking into child porn. Tick, tick, tick........................................
 
Of course, the "blame the victim and empower the perp" crowd would never allow this to happen to these poor, misunderstood people.
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I am liberal and even I like the idea of castration (unless we find a cure for these scum). If they volunteer for permanent castration then let them get castrated. I personally beleive that we all have a right to do what we want withour bodys and even molestors should have a right to cut their genitals off iff they want.

Remember those nuts that thought that that comet was coming to take them away and they all killed themmselves 7-10 yrs or so ago? They had chemical castration done too. Some chemical castrations are permenent. It makes willy and his two friends shrink and fall off. Of course I have no idea what to do with females child molestors though.

I am against the state imposing the death penalty in any case (being a liberal of course) for citizens (except treason in peace time or war and soldiers who deserve it in time of declared war). But I love that guy in Louisianna a decade or two ago that shot the molestor that abused his son when the cops were brining him back to La in the airport. If I was on his gand jury I would have aquitted him too. I would shoot a molestor that abused a member of my or a friends family as well. I just see social problems with the state doing it. They get things wrong so many times that I don't trust the state with such a permanent act.

(Sorry if someone else said some of this already but don't have time to read everyones posts yet. Gotta leave for class and have little time right now.)
 
A person who believes Michael Jackson is turning into a black haired Joan Rivers due to a chemical imbalance probably believes that the same imbalance is the cause of his alleged deviant behavior. ;)

Edited to add, on a more serious note.....
when a child is born, they are capable of learning any language, they are cabable of learning anything. we all learn by repetitive imitation. some learn to be hockey players, some learn to be gymnists, some learn to be chess players, some learn to be homicidal pedophilic rapists. where do they learn this from?
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I believe that they learn the behavior from many different sources that form a world view and set of non-values that allow the behavior. I do not think that any one stimulus or learning experience is the cause. It's a convergence of many different learning experiences.

Half of all child molestors were molested themselves.
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This is a common assertation put forth as a cause of deviant behavior. What it ignores is that half of all child molestors were NOT molested. It also ignores that the vast majority of those who were molested go on to live productive and honorable lives.

To effectively disarm them you need to do the entire job. That means castration, penisectomy, and prostatectomy.
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Rape is a crime of violence. If you remove the means to have sex, you still have the desire to do violence. You can expect the next penetration to be done with a knife. There is only one way to make sure that a person will stop violent behavior.

I've done a post with no answers, so I will put forth my attempt at an answer here. I don't think these people can be rehabilitated. They, as a class, have demonstrated that time and again. I don't think society should have to support them. Therefore, I am for the death penalty for these crimes. Because I believe that the death penalty should produce a deterrence factor, I think the death penalty should be given one appeal within one year, and then the victim or the victim's family should have the option of choosing how the offender will die. There is no punishment so cruel and unusual that it should be off the table. The only requirement should be that the execution be public.
 
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This is a common assertation put forth as a cause of deviant behavior. What it ignores is that half of all child molestors were NOT molested. It also ignores that the vast majority f those who were molested go on to live productive and homorable lives.
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When I wrote what you were responding to I was not ignoring this. I beleive your statement I just quoted above rings true. I was just bringing that up to point out the importance of keeping molestors off the street. The continuing chain of molestor victims becoming molestors themselves would be cut for a generation. Of course the generation after that would have another 50% additional new molestors because of the non-molested molestors (?its early and I can't write logicaly right now but I think we agree on this part)

As far as molestors being rehabilitated by cutting off their ...... I say do it if the molestor thinks that it will make him stop. I don't want to take the chance of releasing him and finding out later that I was wrong but someday in the future it MAY be possible to rahabilitate by castration and medicine.

The brain is plastic and even ones with chemical imbalances can be treated with cognitive thereapy to some extent and meds help with the treatment. Some rapists and molestors have had their behaviours conditioned with past experiences and it MAY be possible (and MAY NOT as well) to recondition them with cognitive therapy and by correcting imbalances with medicines. Now I am in no way advocating that we release them once someone "claims" that they are cured I am just stating that if they have served the time for their crime (although I think they should do life , at the least, too) AND have been rahabilitated then we may have a better outcome for society.

I also agree with Xavier Breath about rapists of adults (at least the majority) doing the crime as one of violence and less as for one of sex. If they have their penises cut off they will use another phallic symbol to commit the rape. Like a knife. It is as much a feeling of control over another as it is sex I beleive. After all they say arsonists do what they do because of sexual urges and feelings of power and they never even use their penises.


P.S. not in this thread but when I say I am a liberal why do people stop right there and never read the rest of my post? I often agree with what they say and they still call me Hilary Clinton.
 
Much good info in these posts...Handy and Xavier seem to have the best handle on it. From years of attempting to work with this population, I can tell you that there is little hope of eliminating the compulsion to offend from their behavior. Segregating them from society thru long term incarceration seems to be the most effective solution (outside of termination). Therapies involving intensive counseling, behavior mod, drug and hormonal implants and injections have all been explored and found wanting. Society won't tolerate physical castration or mutilation an I'm not sure even that would be an effective control measure.

Rape and molestation are about violence, control and a defiance of and desire to beat 'the system' or society. It is a 'thrill' crime where the offender seeks to impose himself and his will upon his victims in the most intimate and brutal way possible. Most offenders are sociopaths who have absolutely no empathy for their victims or concept of them as human beings. There exists a near 100% chance of recidivism. As their 'skill level' increases, so does their need to 'up the ante' in terms of violence, choice of victim and location/time of offense. I favor the death penalty in most of these cases, especially where there is a homocide involved...but you probably already knew that.
 
"lead to a dramatic decrease in sexual thoughts and fantasies, proponents of Depo-Provera argue"

I'd agree with that. It worked on my wife!

Seriously, if you believe that child molestation is simply a matter of chemical imbalances, then how on Earth could you convict that poor man in Florida for killing that little girl? I mean- he only had a chemical imbalance right? He wouldn't have had to kill the little girl if society didn't punish him so harshly for simply being ill!

That kind of reasoning makes me sick.

We live in a society. By the very act of living in a society, we agree to abide by its rules. Nobody is forced to live here and you are free to migrate to another society if you wish. That being said, we live under a social contract. We abide by certain base norms of decency. Chemical imbalances don't kill people, people kill people. If you realize that you have a perversion that is likely to hurt somebody, it is your responsibility to seek treatment BEFORE you hurt somebody as opposed to after and make society pay for your treatments.

There are few places where a true pervert couldn't find appropriate treatment before they hurt somebody. Every county in Texas has a clinic and I am sure that many counties in the US do too. Those doctors will find you help.

Once you step outside the boundaries of society and hurt anybody whether they are juvenile, senile, male or female, you deserve to spend the rest of your days in a tiny cell at a MINIMUM.

I may be very lax against crimes of possession, but I have no mercy or sympathy for crimes against life, liberty or property. I don't want to try to experiment with drug therapies on past offenders. Let's experiment on a self-admitted potential offender who has not hurt anybody yet, if you think it is worth a try.

Once these people hurt somebody, as far as I am concerned, it is like a chicken-eating dog. It cannot be fixed and so you must decide whether to let your chickens die, or kill the dog, except in this case, you must choose whether to allow the innocent to suffer or to allow the guilty to suffer. It ins't a real hard choice.
 
Rapists treated with two hundred and thirty grains of Trepanazine exhibit a zero percent recidivism rate. The best part of this treatment program is that it can be administered on-site by the intended victim at no cost to the taxpayers.
 
Ok, I thought maybe at least SOMEBODY would think this treatment has some promise.

Here is the thing. I am not trying to excuse people's violent behaviour. What I try to do with anyone, is try and understand why people act the way they do. My brother is an alcoholic, one of my friends has a case of tremendous depression. I know that it is a complex web of factors, but people act the way they do mostly because of their genes.

If you have a girlfriend or wife you can witness the mood swings involved with their menstral cycle. Birth control most definitely controls sexual desire.

Do you know anyone who takes steriods? Which is basically the opposite of the Depo-shot. I have several friends who have taken steroids religiously and it creates very violent and aggressive behavior.

Someone asked, well why havent we figured it out yet? Because the human body is extremely complex with some 25,000 multi protein coding genes. We are in the infancy of understanding genes. They werent even discoverd until 1953. When we can create commercially available customized gene therapy to specifically control the mechanisms that make each individual violent I believe then you will see results.
But let me tell you, if drugs dont affect behavior than why do I hear so many people on here talking about crazed PCP users, saying how it makes them invincible? To say putting a drug into your body doesnt alter behavior is just silly. It may be more complicated than just administering birth control but there is no doubt giving a female hormone decreases sexual desire.

I am trying to find some case studies on some of these treatments to get more data. I watched a special on Discovery about it, and one guy who went to prison 3 times was let out the last time on the Depo-shot treatment. He went for several years without a relapse. Well, he got married and they let him go off his treatment to have a baby. Well, big mistake, as soon as he went off his treatment, he raped another girl. Back to prison...

We owe it to all the potential innocent rape victims out there to find a more effective solution, and prison DOES NOT CURE THESE PEOPLE. IMO it makes them much worse, it makes them into a time bomb when they get out.
 
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