Birth control can help stop rapists

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No flame perceived, just tossing some stuff around.

The contradiction I was refering to was that if you think that public fiction about violence causes crime then by that logic, the guy you kill for rape that who's death you publicise will do the same. It will show some borderline, fantasy imagining, killer to rationalise that if the state has no value for life then why should he?
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Public fiction causes crime about as much as public displays of marketable goods cause theft. It just doesn't. The temptation is there but not the causation, thats an individual decision to act on an idea. What public fiction does is to put ideas into peoples heads, and to show lines being crossed which tends to break down ones inhibitions and aversions to particular behavior, usually without showing realistic consequences for the behavior. People want to feel blameless and look for other directions to blame their bad behavior on and fail to consider the consequences for their actions. Executing violent predators would show consequences and imply personal responsibility which would be a deterrant to a lot of borderline deviates.

Or so it seems to me. I didn't mean to sound like I was blaming crime on tv. But the idiot box is a contributing factor thats slowly brainwashing our society into thinking differently than we should. It's like a computer. Garbage in / garbage out. If we had church oriented type programming instead of natural born killer type movies, people would start to think differently over time.
 
Interesting post and I even responded to it a few days ago.....That said I would like to poke a stick in a hornet nest and ask the forum Gods how it is firearms related? I see a lot of stuff get locked up for not being related. I am sorry Snack and I know I should get egged for bringing it up..... ;) just wondering how some are cut so quick and your interesting post didn't. ;)
 
The people would eradicate these animals post-haste. Then, as in the case of child molesters, no other child's life would be destroyed by the same predator. What we as the "state" tell children now is
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Many people demand immediate reprisal all the time and claim/beleive that it would protect society. My main problem is that they expect the state to do it for them (I know that the people ARE the state). If it was done as a life for life basis or self sacrifice (die killing the killer themself) then it might not be a personal problem to me (Charles Bronson is my hero ;) ). But I also realise that the state cannot endorse such savagery as it may be used as an excuse for others to commit or justify their violence (be it another country or a mental defective rapist or clear thinking evil-minded rapist).

That is why I beleive we need an alternative and castration is, at the very least, a fist step to that alternative. I don't think child molestors should really ever get out either but, taking death off the table for arguments sake, would you agree with me that if the molestor volunteered for castration then he might be at the very least "less" of a threat to society if he was released on a technicality or if he escaped?


Quote >"Don't liberals just kill ya"< even a liberal like me has to laugh at that bumpersticker :D :p
 
Executing violent predators would show consequences and imply personal responsibility which would be a deterrant to a lot of borderline deviates.
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I am beginning to think that we agree more than we dissagree. After all in twenty years they will have harder porn, violent movies so violent they make todays look tame, and sex in the parking lots (sex already happenning at Greatful Dead concerts parking lots though) and I will probably agree with you completely because it will be so shocking to me that I will not be able to imagine not being effected by it. Although, I think that we can teach personal responsibility to the borderline cases in less violent ways (like social programs :D ).
And I agree that some borderline cases will be pushed over the edge, but we disagree where; I think that close to the same number of borderline cases will be pushed to murder because of the killing example the state shows them.

By using the same "death penalty example" argument you could also use the "castration example" argument where the deviants may think that the same castration could happen to them if they stepped over the line. (just a thought)
 
That is why I beleive we need an alternative and castration is, at the very least, a fist step to that alternative. I don't think child molestors should really ever get out either but, taking death off the table for arguments sake, would you agree with me that if the molestor volunteered for castration then he might be at the very least "less" of a threat to society if he was released on a technicality or if he escaped?
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This sounds familier. Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, that if we take away guns, murder rate will drop. I gotta respectfully disagree with line of logic. The deviate mind is the real threat and after he's castrated, he may feel spiteful and continue with his sexual deviancy even though he has no, uh, gun. Many sexual crimes do not require penetration and are still traumatic to the victim. I read something once that said a lot of rapes the rapist does not even ejaculate, that its more of a power/control thing than the sex act itself.

(no offense/no flame) :)
 
Many sexual crimes do not require penetration and are still traumatic to the victim. I read something once that said a lot of rapes the rapist does not even ejaculate, that its more of a power/control thing than the sex act itself.
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Yes I have heard and read (and even said) this as well. But (unless I didn't catch my own mistake) I and (I think) others arguing the castration side have been saying that it is the child molestors who are motivated the most by their sexual desires and some are even "only" motivated because of their sexual desires. It is the child molestors that fit the bill that we want to try voluntary castration on. I was just pointing out the rapist part of the discussion because it was brought up somewhere in the thread.

I don't beleive that a majority of rapists don't ejaculate. They usually check for and find semen in the victim. I have no numbers to back this up though.
:)
 
Many people demand immediate reprisal all the time and claim/beleive that it would protect society. My main problem is that they expect the state to do it for them (I know that the people ARE the state).
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As a lifelong RKBA advocate I disagree. I think that if liberalism hadn't warped the country, as it has these many years gone by, that most people would deal with these things as they once did. History is littered with the carcasses of varmints who - for one reason or another - got offed by their erstwhile victims.

How about we compromise... we let people deal with attackers the good ol' conservative way (whacking + stacking) and to make it possible (and throw the libs a bone) we start a huge gubbermint program so that the courage challenged can get a government issue addaspinetome surgery. Fair enough? lol
I don't think child molestors should really ever get out either but, taking death off the table for arguments sake, would you agree with me that if the molestor volunteered for castration then he might be at the very least "less" of a threat to society if he was released on a technicality or if he escaped?
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No, I would not agree. I would see it for what it is. It is a step that criminal masterminds are willing to take in order to lull their supposed guardians into letting them back at the prey they long for.

I'd give them a nice long dirt nap instead. No more longing.
 
How about we compromise... we let people deal with attackers the good ol' conservative way (whacking + stacking) and to make it possible (and throw the libs a bone) we start a huge gubbermint program so that the courage challenged can get a government issue addaspinetome surgery.
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Took me five minutes to look up addaspinetome surgery til I finally got it. LOL :)
As far as compromise; I haggle as well as the next guy. But I can't think of a good comeback right now. Laughing at addaspinetome too hard at the moment. :D
Glad to know that the gov. will pay for my surgery though. Thought I'd have to go to Canada for one.
 
...who are motivated the most by their sexual desires and some are even "only" motivated because of their sexual desires. It is the child molestors that fit the bill that we want to try voluntary castration on.
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Suprised no one has mentioned it yet, but to the best of my knowledge, sexual excitement occurs in the brain and is only manifest in the organs themselves. Castration would leave the brain intact.

And child molesters are the last people I'd want to take a chance with. Even first time offenders. That may sound harsh but so was their first offense to little suzy who lives up the street and happened to be his victim.

Or so it seems to me.
 
Yes, as far as I know sexual excitement occurs in the brain but just like some women get (something that rhymes with) itchy when they are having their menstral cycle, an increase in hormones from the reproductive organs affects the brain, and thereby the sex drive. The increased sex drive and aggressive responses can push a molestor a little further towards his crime. Removing a majority of the hormones by removing the reproductive organ and also by (maybe) adding female hormones, his sex drive will become lethargic. Now this would only work on the molestors that did'nt molest for violent satisfaction as well as sexual. (although, technically, all child abuse is a sort of violence)

Fred, to answer your last part of your last post and to answer part of yours Edward 42......I was talking hypothetically about if they had been able to escape either; prosecution or escape from prison. I beleive that they should be kept in jail for life to. Even for the fist offense. If we castrate them then they will still be in jail (hopefully) and if someday (but unlikely) we find a way to know for sure that they really werent giving us a bunch of "bovine scatology" then maybe they could be released. I would still watch them though just in case the miracle lie detector is wrong once.

BTW. I would only let myself be sent to Canada only if the Orioles moved to Toronto. :p
 
Oh for God's Sake! Castrate them already! Then imprison them, then shoot them, and if they survive electrocute them and then you can still give leathal injection and we will all be satisfied!

Stop this thread PLEASE! :rolleyes:
 
I am sorry Snack and I know I should get egged for bringing it up..... just wondering how some are cut so quick and your interesting post didn't.
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well,only in the general discussion board does it say "must be firearms related"
here in legal and political, thats what you are going to get. this is very much a legal and political issue, and it has alot to do with why we carry guns in the first place.

i can see some other folks have run with this subject, i am glad to start a lively discussion. i realize that i am not changing anyone's mind here though. its a defense mechanism, all of you out there will put your hands over your ears and yell "lalalalalalala" when it comes to explaining why people behave the way they do. all of you are comparing yourselves, normal non-deviant sexual people, to people who are not normal. well, if i can stop myself from raping someone, then these people can too,cause they have the same genetic makeup as me dont they? um, no they dont.

someone who is a genius, do you think they are that way cause they chose to? someone who is an artist, another matter of controllable choice? someone who is a comedian, very funny that can tell a joke about anything..does he just choose to be that way? manic depressives, paranoid scizophrenics, OCD, any deviant behaviors, these are all just a matter of simple choices of actions. dont you all agree? they could snap out of it if they wanted to.

i find it amusing the specualtion about how the human body works. especially how the brain, according to some on here is a separate entity capable of making decisions on its own, which doesnt need proper calcium, potatsium, and chlorine ions to create electrical impulses,which cause "thinking", and a man's penis which is totally separate from the rest of his body capable of making its own decisions. you guys seriously need to read up on some physiology. the body is a whole machine, very delicately balanced, that one thing can cause another to be way out of wack. when you see how incredibly balanced all these trillions of cells are in our bodies, and how the tiniest mutations can cause havoc, you might start to understand why we are so different.

its pride that says," i am a great person because of what i have accomplished, the choices i have made, and the knowledge i have acquired." But.. say if you had the genetic bad luck of inheriting your dad's mutilple personalty disorder, all those other great things would crumble away. without your body working in perfect balance the way its supposed to, you dont act normally. wouldnt you agree, that normal isnt raping 2 year olds, or killing and eating people, or stalking 30 different women and telling yourself that you love them and they love you? wouldnt you agree that there is something wrong with them on the inside?

some on here argued, "well a frontal lobotomy would fix them." well yeah of course it would. or would you still argue that they would still rape and murder with half their brain missing? ok so lets get this straight.. chopping out a section of someone's brain is the only thing that will fix someone's abnormal behavior? thats like saying, well your brakes are squealing on your car... well, only way to fix that is to yank the engine out and toss it, then to car wont move anymore, and the brakes wont squeal. problem fixed. or you could change the brake pads.
 
Nah they wouldn't keep doing it after a frontal lobotomy. And here's a firearm reference to keep it within the scope of the board...

Frontal Lobotomy..Press. Frontal Lobotomy..Press..

Get it? :D
 
Oh for God's Sake! Castrate them already! Then imprison them, then shoot them, and if they survive electrocute them and then you can still give leathal injection and we will all be satisfied!
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I knew I picked well when I picked kjm in the "Who's your favorite TFLer?" thread! :p
 
Snacktrack,
If there was a smiley face that I knew how to get that was clapping I would use it right now. But since I don't- clap clap clap bravo clap bravo. :)
Well argued.
 
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"all of you out there will put your hands over your ears and yell "lalalalalalala" when it comes to explaining why people behave the way they do."

Yes, I'm such a moron that I'm always glad when someone like you comes along to straighten me out. Thanks for sharing.

Tim
 
Handy
But you're still making an assumption.
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No; this is based on what science already knows about the human psyche, and history has recorded. The advertizing and marketing industry uses it. What people see and hear does influence them - to greater or lesser degree. This knowledge is also the basis for political science - the psychology of manipulation. To try and say all this is "assumption" is to deny science and it's historical application.

Whereas advertizing aims to press the right buttons to promote a product or service - this garbage is just destructive all around.

Take at look at the general ideological and political strata; look at the people who promote and sell this trash. It wasn't they who built the civilized culture and all the good things we enjoy today, either in the Old World of Europe or this country. Rather they have been at the forefront of tearing it down.

The communists have used it for it's debasing effect, and their intent to do so is hardly any matter for rational contention. Did I say communists? Ah yes, those people have been the single greatest agents - the change agents - in the decline of this country. Debase the morality of a nation and the rest will fall. How did they know this? Because it has a known effect on people.
 
Yes, I'm such a moron that I'm always glad when someone like you comes along to straighten me out. Thanks for sharing.
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Hey Tim and others who I offended, I apologize. Had a long day at work and just wanted to yell. I realize what I said is condescending. I do not however apologize for my views, only how I worded it. :)
 
I think that is a good note to end this thread on. It has run it's course and was *barely* on topic to begin with.

Thanks to those who tried to keep the discussion on the high road. :)

-Dave
 
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