A Challenge to the 870 Express Bashers....
- Thread starter Dave McC
- Start date
Well I can't use the "Z" word but this thread is proof positive that if you have a "vested" interest in a pretend reality it does not matter what the facts are - you just pretend and stick you head in the .... well.....sand. I like the logic of bringing up the short cvommings of other shotguns to "prove" that the 870 does not have "issues" in spite the thousands of reports we all have seen.
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My 870 Express,along with another Express and a Maverick 88 all experienced extraction problems with the cheap ammo.They all three had fired 00 buck,slugger slugs,and Express longe range #6 game loads and 3" turkey loads from Remington along with 3" turkey loads from Federal and Winchester the weekend before with no malfunctions.All these shells had steel bases.
The two 870's were cleaned by me before they were fired for the first time.I used a 10 g brush to clean the chambers and the solvents used were spray can Breakfree and Birchwood Casey gun scrubber.
After they choked on the cheap fiocchi shells I did an internet search and found several fixes ranging from 0000 steel wool or green Scotchbrite pads spun in a drill to using brake cylinder hones or simply not shooting the offending ammo.I used the steel wool method and cured the two 870's and the friend did the same to his Maverick 88 and cured it as well.
I do not know who to blame for the stuck shell problem,Rem for rough or undersized chambers(or Mossberg for the same thing on the Maverick 88)or the maker of the cheaper shells for not sizing the steel bases properly.I do know that operator error in the form of short stroking or not pumping hard enough was not a factor, nor was failing to remove any factory greases,oils,cosmoline etc that was in the chambers.
Even though I had no further extraction problems I could still see rings in the chamber and bought a FlexHone chamber hone and oil from Midway USA and after using it the chamber looks much better.
The other things that some folks did not like about 870 Expresses such as the mim extractor,J lock safety,cheap plain steel bead sight,and easily rusting finish were also cured with very inexpensive parts from Midway and the rusting was mitigated by soaking the exterior finish in Ballistil and wiping off the excess.I also bought a Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen from Midway at the same time I bought the standard safety button,gold bead bradley front sight and drill and bottoming tap to install it,forged extractor,and Scattergun tech magazine spring and follower.
I now have a shotgun that will function with the economy shells and that I have 100% confidence in.
Now if I could do something about that saw tooth vent rib
The two 870's were cleaned by me before they were fired for the first time.I used a 10 g brush to clean the chambers and the solvents used were spray can Breakfree and Birchwood Casey gun scrubber.
After they choked on the cheap fiocchi shells I did an internet search and found several fixes ranging from 0000 steel wool or green Scotchbrite pads spun in a drill to using brake cylinder hones or simply not shooting the offending ammo.I used the steel wool method and cured the two 870's and the friend did the same to his Maverick 88 and cured it as well.
I do not know who to blame for the stuck shell problem,Rem for rough or undersized chambers(or Mossberg for the same thing on the Maverick 88)or the maker of the cheaper shells for not sizing the steel bases properly.I do know that operator error in the form of short stroking or not pumping hard enough was not a factor, nor was failing to remove any factory greases,oils,cosmoline etc that was in the chambers.
Even though I had no further extraction problems I could still see rings in the chamber and bought a FlexHone chamber hone and oil from Midway USA and after using it the chamber looks much better.
The other things that some folks did not like about 870 Expresses such as the mim extractor,J lock safety,cheap plain steel bead sight,and easily rusting finish were also cured with very inexpensive parts from Midway and the rusting was mitigated by soaking the exterior finish in Ballistil and wiping off the excess.I also bought a Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen from Midway at the same time I bought the standard safety button,gold bead bradley front sight and drill and bottoming tap to install it,forged extractor,and Scattergun tech magazine spring and follower.
I now have a shotgun that will function with the economy shells and that I have 100% confidence in.
Now if I could do something about that saw tooth vent rib
rc, if I had seen any Expresses glitch, I certainly would report same. But I have not.
"Pretend reality"? H*ll,no. Just my experience. That includes at least 50K rounds fired through 870s,including Expresses
.
And, why is my sample of 20 or so Expresses too small to be valid, but your sample of one or two Expresses is large enough to have all such deemed junk?
And, still no takers.......
"Pretend reality"? H*ll,no. Just my experience. That includes at least 50K rounds fired through 870s,including Expresses
.
And, why is my sample of 20 or so Expresses too small to be valid, but your sample of one or two Expresses is large enough to have all such deemed junk?
And, still no takers.......
Technosavant
New member
Dave is a sensible guy and I've valued his input on shotgunning here for a long time.
"Ridiculous" is what I'd apply to a guy with a low post count who seems only to ever talk about how the 870 is junk and how that makes Remington as a whole nothing but purveyors of absolute garbage.
I don't doubt you have had a bunch of problem 870s, RC. Neither do I doubt that the 870 Express as a whole has more issues than the higher priced variants or that QC has slipped in recent years.
I do doubt that you are anything approaching objective on the topic.
Sounds like you need a new gunsmith that knows what he is doing. Remington has made over 10 million 870's and I've never heard of one that needed the chamber recut. What are the odds that you got 2 of them.
If the chambers were so far out or spec that they truly needed to be recut a reputable smith would have told you to box up the gun, or at least the barrel and return it for a replacement. Remington would have paid the shipping both ways. I've never had to return anything to Remington, but my experiences with Mossberg, Smith and Ruger had a 7-10 day turn around time.
If the chambers were so far out or spec that they truly needed to be recut a reputable smith would have told you to box up the gun, or at least the barrel and return it for a replacement. Remington would have paid the shipping both ways. I've never had to return anything to Remington, but my experiences with Mossberg, Smith and Ruger had a 7-10 day turn around time.
ACTUAL 870 trouble, not hear say...
OK, I have waded through four pages of this thread and not found an answer to MY 870 problems. BTW, I found this thread via Google while searching for an answer.
I have two 12ga 870s that are malfunctioning in the same way, one Express Super Magnum and one factory 14" 870 Police Magnum. My trouble is that the shell stops are not allowing the shells out of the magazine, they are effectively single shots at this point. I have tried shucking them hard, different ammo, cleaning, nothing has solved the trouble yet. Both shotguns were used when I got them and both ran flawlessly for at least a year before they stopped. I DID leave them both loaded for an extended period of time, if that matters any. I would think that replacing the cartridge stops would cure the problem but since Remington decided to stake them into the receiver that is easier said than done! IS there an easy fix? I REALLLY don't want to ship my registered SBS across state lines to have it fixed...
Mr Dave... I for one would come see you and have this diagnosed in person, but Texas is a long way from you!
I SELL used 870 Express Magnums for $140 in the Pawnshop I work for, and would never pay more than $100 for one!
I have to say that my favorite shotguns right now are the M590A1, because they are heavy (like the 870) and the extra weight tames recoil a bit (like the 870) but the cartridge stops are easy to replace (unlike the 870). If the 870 didn't have permanently mounted ejectors and cartridge stops I would have no issues with them at all!
Sam R
OK, I have waded through four pages of this thread and not found an answer to MY 870 problems. BTW, I found this thread via Google while searching for an answer.
I have two 12ga 870s that are malfunctioning in the same way, one Express Super Magnum and one factory 14" 870 Police Magnum. My trouble is that the shell stops are not allowing the shells out of the magazine, they are effectively single shots at this point. I have tried shucking them hard, different ammo, cleaning, nothing has solved the trouble yet. Both shotguns were used when I got them and both ran flawlessly for at least a year before they stopped. I DID leave them both loaded for an extended period of time, if that matters any. I would think that replacing the cartridge stops would cure the problem but since Remington decided to stake them into the receiver that is easier said than done! IS there an easy fix? I REALLLY don't want to ship my registered SBS across state lines to have it fixed...
Mr Dave... I for one would come see you and have this diagnosed in person, but Texas is a long way from you!
I SELL used 870 Express Magnums for $140 in the Pawnshop I work for, and would never pay more than $100 for one!
I have to say that my favorite shotguns right now are the M590A1, because they are heavy (like the 870) and the extra weight tames recoil a bit (like the 870) but the cartridge stops are easy to replace (unlike the 870). If the 870 didn't have permanently mounted ejectors and cartridge stops I would have no issues with them at all!
Sam R
Have you ever closed the action hard with the bbl off?Have you checked to see if the follower stop shoulders are peened?Check for debris behind shell latches?These are some of the things in my shop manuals trouble shooting section.It also says a weak or damaged mag spring or damaged follower will cause this.
What are the odds of the same malfunction happening on two different guns?
Closing the action hard with the bbl off will damage the shell latches.
What are the odds of the same malfunction happening on two different guns?
Closing the action hard with the bbl off will damage the shell latches.
*Have you ever closed the action hard with the bbl off?*
I don't believe so, don't know why I would have.
*Have you checked to see if the follower stop shoulders are peened?*
I have inspected them, maybe not closely enough, I will do it again.
*Check for debris behind shell latches?*
Yes, they appear to be clean.
*These are some of the things in my shop manuals trouble shooting section.It also says a weak or damaged mag spring or damaged follower will cause this.*
The shells have the proper tension on them, good springs , free moving followers.
*What are the odds of the same malfunction happening on two different guns?*
Good question, that is why I mentioned them being loaded for an extended period. My old fugly 870 Wingmaster Riot runs like a top, but I have not left that one loaded.
I don't believe so, don't know why I would have.
*Have you checked to see if the follower stop shoulders are peened?*
I have inspected them, maybe not closely enough, I will do it again.
*Check for debris behind shell latches?*
Yes, they appear to be clean.
*These are some of the things in my shop manuals trouble shooting section.It also says a weak or damaged mag spring or damaged follower will cause this.*
The shells have the proper tension on them, good springs , free moving followers.
*What are the odds of the same malfunction happening on two different guns?*
Good question, that is why I mentioned them being loaded for an extended period. My old fugly 870 Wingmaster Riot runs like a top, but I have not left that one loaded.
The truth is you are a troll posting your opinion as fact. I'm not saying there aren't Express models that do have problems, because any firearm from Astra to Zastava is going to have issues because its built by humans.
The real truth is I've heard this BS for years, but have NEVER seen it first hand through the Express models I've owned or all the other Express owners I know. So many countless "Internet Experts" have told me about these issues, but pretty much every 870 owner has no issues & all the gunshops that sell countless 870s never have people bring them back complaining about them.
Its akin to saying all Glock .40S&W models will KABOOM on you. Funny thing is I know many G22/G23 owners that have thousands of rounds through theirs with no issues. Also so many experts have told me Beretta 92s break locking blocks constantly, but I've never seen it first hand either. Also the AR-15 is a huge POS, but I've never seen a quality AR-15 have issues.
Now it is a fact Express models chambers are not as smooth as a Wingmaster or Police, but as far as pitting in countless chambers.... its complete BS.
rc,
Take some friendly advice from someone who has been in your shoes and knows exactly how you feel.
CALL REMINGTON TOMORROW.
Give them a chance to make this right instead of blowing off on the internet. Right now you are only ******* into the wind and hurting your own credibility.
The 870 is the single most tested, reliable repeating shotgun in history. With over 10 million made they have been the overwhelming choice for anyone who wanted a rugged dependable shotgun. They have been used for decades by competition shooters, many who have put well over 200,000 rounds through their guns. Nothing currently in production can come close to matching the sheer number of rounds fired through 870 shotguns.
You can make a good argument that the Winchester 12, and 97 as well as the Ithica 37 are better guns. They may be, but they don't have the production numbers to match the 870.
Even if everything you say about your gun is 100% correct it still does not make the other 9,999,999 870's junk.
Back in 1999 I bought a new S&W Sigma. The gun was returned to the factory twice before firing 30 rounds. Smith agreed to send me one of the newer versions of the gun that had just come out to replace the original Sigma. When my gun came in it was one of the older versions, so it went back as well. After 4 tries I finally got a working gun. I had every right to be upset, but Smith makes good stuff. They did take care of me, and I still buy S&W products. It would have been foolish for me to get on the net and try to tell folks that Smith made junk, just because I got one of the few bad ones.
I understand your frustration. You just have to go about making it right, in the right way.
Take some friendly advice from someone who has been in your shoes and knows exactly how you feel.
CALL REMINGTON TOMORROW.
Give them a chance to make this right instead of blowing off on the internet. Right now you are only ******* into the wind and hurting your own credibility.
The 870 is the single most tested, reliable repeating shotgun in history. With over 10 million made they have been the overwhelming choice for anyone who wanted a rugged dependable shotgun. They have been used for decades by competition shooters, many who have put well over 200,000 rounds through their guns. Nothing currently in production can come close to matching the sheer number of rounds fired through 870 shotguns.
You can make a good argument that the Winchester 12, and 97 as well as the Ithica 37 are better guns. They may be, but they don't have the production numbers to match the 870.
Even if everything you say about your gun is 100% correct it still does not make the other 9,999,999 870's junk.
Back in 1999 I bought a new S&W Sigma. The gun was returned to the factory twice before firing 30 rounds. Smith agreed to send me one of the newer versions of the gun that had just come out to replace the original Sigma. When my gun came in it was one of the older versions, so it went back as well. After 4 tries I finally got a working gun. I had every right to be upset, but Smith makes good stuff. They did take care of me, and I still buy S&W products. It would have been foolish for me to get on the net and try to tell folks that Smith made junk, just because I got one of the few bad ones.
I understand your frustration. You just have to go about making it right, in the right way.
Sorry, Mathman, no plans to return to LA. Not even to fix your gun. Lived there in the 70s.
Pawnshop,same for Tejas. If you can do it without violating BATFE commandments, swap the barrels and doublecheck they're snugged up. See if that fixes the problem.Also try new rounds. Some times ammo kept under pressure bloats.
FYI, one 870 here has been kept loaded one round down from capacity pretty much straight through since the early 80s,with ammo rotation. No problems.
Pawnshop,same for Tejas. If you can do it without violating BATFE commandments, swap the barrels and doublecheck they're snugged up. See if that fixes the problem.Also try new rounds. Some times ammo kept under pressure bloats.
FYI, one 870 here has been kept loaded one round down from capacity pretty much straight through since the early 80s,with ammo rotation. No problems.
OkieCruffler
New member
Well I've got no dog in this fight, my 870 is an old wingmaster. I do know who I would trust in the matter after following post for around 10 years but that don't matter none I guess. But I have to say this. Some fellas at the range the other day had some fiochi 20 ga sheels that were binding up in an 1100 and even in an OU with ejectors they had to be coaxed out by hand.
Deerhunter
New member
I don't know what we are calling an old 870 Express or a new 870 Express. I bought a 870 Express Mag in 1998. I have no idea how many rounds have been through it. The only problem I have is when I pull the trigger and it goes CLICK, my fault only holds 3 shells or 5 when deer hunting. I can cycle it fast enough when we get a heard of deer running or a flock of geese coming in the I sometimes think there should be another shell in there.
Ok I am sure someone is going to jump on me about shooting that fast. I don't want to hear it. When you got 3 or 4 guys in a pit blind and 8 or so geese come in you are getting all 3 shots off. I may miss with one of the three but between the 3 or 4 of us we get 5 geese (chances are we shot the same one).
I have never had an issue with my 870. I actually was waiting to shoot a round of skeet with it. Couple older guys invited me to join them. They were all shooting $2500+ over / unders. So I hit my single, then my next single. They ask if (as I was dropping 2 shells in) I wanted the doubles or just singles again. I said, nope give me the double and I got them both. They all looked at me and said, well then ok.
Again I have had no issues with my 870. I don't clean it as often as I should but still have not had a problem with it.
Ok I am sure someone is going to jump on me about shooting that fast. I don't want to hear it. When you got 3 or 4 guys in a pit blind and 8 or so geese come in you are getting all 3 shots off. I may miss with one of the three but between the 3 or 4 of us we get 5 geese (chances are we shot the same one).
I have never had an issue with my 870. I actually was waiting to shoot a round of skeet with it. Couple older guys invited me to join them. They were all shooting $2500+ over / unders. So I hit my single, then my next single. They ask if (as I was dropping 2 shells in) I wanted the doubles or just singles again. I said, nope give me the double and I got them both. They all looked at me and said, well then ok.
Again I have had no issues with my 870. I don't clean it as often as I should but still have not had a problem with it.