40S&W not so popular?

Another in the long, long line of caliber wars.

I've shot pistols for over 60 years, starting when I was 7 or 8 and while I do have a single 9mm to go along with the 22lr, 357mag, 40s&w, 45acp, 10mm, 45Super, and 45 Colt pistols I shoot regularly, in truth, it's a s/n matching, original NAZI marked 1942 Luger I collected and don't shoot.

I handload for all but the 22lr and I found that my 40s&ws are tamer shooters with 180grn bullets and Power Pistol powder than 40 s&w loads with lighter bullets. I've also noted that a 124grn 9Mmm+P commercial load is significantly more snappy in the same platform (Glock) than my 180grn handloads are.

What?! People say all the time, "the 40 is a high pressure load while the 9mm isn't. I can shoot my 9mm+P loads with less recoil." However, nothing could be farther from the truth. The 40s&w is a 35,000psi load as is the 9mm. Yep, the same high pressure they also share with a 357mag among others. And you may be surprised to find out that the 9mm+P shot in many 9mm to up the performance in a SD role is actually a higher pressure load at 38,500psi than the 10mm at 37,500psi.

As with most pistols, I've learned that finding the right one for you is a combination of finding the right grip and balance and using the right ammo for it. There are different grip angles and shapes out there as well as different hand sizes and shapes and one needs to try different brands to find the style that fits your hand, not someone else's.
 
COSteve... my experience is pretty much the same as yours, particularly with regard to 180 gr factory defense loads (HST, Gold Dot, Ranger) typically being softer shooting than 165 gr factory defense loads (same brands). The 180 gr loads have more of that "push" feeling so commonly used to describe the recoil feel of 230 gr. .45auto. And the 165 gr. loads tend to have more of that "snappy" feel that people sometimes use to describe .40S&W. Further, 9mm +P loads push that caliber to have recoil that feels similar to .40S&W.

The pistol itself, as well as the particular load selected, can make the same caliber feel like a completely different caliber. Finding that combination of pistol and load that just "clicks" for an individual is where the sweet results show up.
 
180 grain Tula is one of the softest shooting 40 loads you can get. I've used it as a confidence builder for folks new to the cartridge.
 
As long as you don't get your hands on the Hornady 40sw 165 XTP (1175 fps). As I said before that's a heck of a snappy load.

On a trip to the range I went shot my G29 with Sig Elite 10mm 180 rated at 1250 fps. I also had my LWD 40sw barrel and shot some of them Hornady 165s.

I put my G29 down after a couple of them 165s, shook my hand and thought WTH?

Funny thing is the Sig P250c I had handled them quite well.
 
My notion of an ideal anti-personnel rig is a 10mm 180gn/XTP or HST type bullet at 1300fps from a pistol with substantial capacity (a 15+1 Glock 20), along with a spare 15-rd magazine. * * *
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After fixing it for you, Sarge, I agree. ;) Quite the bad-guy stopper there.

You can thank me later. :D

:cool:
 
Spring weights will vary for a number of reasons--for example striker fired guns tend to have heavier springs than similar size/weight hammer fired guns.
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Irrelevant when comparing springs in a G19 to a G23.
Do you remember how many slides you weighed and any weight comparison information from the 40 & 9mm slides you weighed? Or perhaps even a rough average
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I actually only weighed 4 a G19, G23, FNS and a FNS40. The G23 was actually a smidge lighter than the G19 and the FNS40 was over an ounce heavier.
 
Irrelevant when comparing springs in a G19 to a G23.
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I'm responding to your comments about comparing OTHER pistols (which you state are designed differently/better in terms of slide mass) to Glocks. When I asked about the information about OTHER pistols' slide mass, you mentioned spring weights as evidence of differing slide mass. That's why I pointed out that using spring weights as evidence of differing slide mass could be problematic and gave one example of why that is true.
The G23 was actually a smidge lighter than the G19 and the FNS40 was over an ounce heavier.
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Interesting. I wonder if there's a way to get slide/barrel mass figures for a wide variety of 9mm & .40S&W pistols.

Do you remember what the FNS40 slide/barrel weight was compared to the G23?
 
Just weighed some of my forties and nines. I don't have my Browning HiPower forties here, so I was not able to weigh them. Yes, I really enjoy forty caliber! ;)


From these figures, there is obviously more to making a pistol comfortably soft-shooting than just slide-mass. My G23 and G22 both feel markedly less-comfortable and less enjoyable to shoot than any of my other forties.

Also, some pistols seem to transfer more shock impulse down into the trigger than others do. For me, Glocks seem to transfer more of this shock to the trigger than my other pistols do.

This is why I think that people who base their opinion of what it's like to shoot .40S&W, by shooting Glock forties, really do not have an accurate impression of the caliber - and this is especially true if their only .40S&W experience is limited to a G23 or G27 shooting 165 gr defense loads (not that much fun, in my view)!

I do enjoy shooting the Glock 19 and 17, however. And I do enjoy shooting the G23, when converted to 9mm. I also enjoy shooting my G21SF and my G30. It's just the Glock forty-caliber pistols which I find less comfortable, less enjoyable to shoot than my other pistols.

The SIG P320 40 Compact has the exact same slide mass as the G23 Gen 4, yet is dramatically more comfortable and more enjoyable to shoot. The 320 Compact is also softer shooting than my G22 Gen 4. The P320 pistol as a whole does weigh 3.8 more ounces than the G23 does and 2.1 oz. more than the G22 Gen 4, which may account for part of the difference. But the slide of the G22 Gen 4 is heavier than the slide of the P320 Compact, so... hmmmm. I guess when it comes to providing a soft, comfortable shooting experience, a few ounces of weight may not make as much of a difference as the design of the pistol itself, including spring design and spring weight?
 
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Just weighed some of my forties and nines.
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VERY nice! It's great to have actual data to work with.

Interesting how close the slide/barrel weights are comparing 9mms to .40s in the same size pistols. Below are the comparisons for the guns in both lists that are the same except for caliber.

M&P40C/M&P9C--.40 is 0.1oz heavier.
G23/G19--.40 is 1.8oz heavier.
G22/G17--.40 is 1.3oz heavier.
P320 Full--.40 is 1.9oz heavier.
P320 Compact--.40 is 0.6oz heavier.
From these figures, there is obviously more to making a pistol comfortably soft-shooting than just slide-mass.
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Indeed. Makes me wish I could pick the brains of a really good gun designer.
 
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John... good catch. The P320 Full size 9mm slide weighs 1# 1.3 oz. Chart has been corrected.
 
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agtman said:
My notion of an ideal anti-personnel rig is a 10mm 180gn/XTP or HST type bullet at 1300fps from a pistol with substantial capacity (a 15+1 Glock 20), along with a spare 15-rd magazine. * * *
After fixing it for you, Sarge, I agree. Quite the bad-guy stopper there.

You can thank me later.
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Mighty kind of you to look out for me like that.

In all honesty I don't think the terminal 'improvement' of a 40 caliber XTP, only 15 grains heavier and going 150 fps faster, would even be noticeable. If I was going to lug something that big around it would be one of my 45 Colts or a G21 in 45 Super.

Now those are real thumpers ;)
 
My notion of an ideal anti-personnel rig is a 40/165/XTP or HST type bullet at 1100 fps from a pistol with substantial capacity, along with a spare magazine.
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Compared to 147 grain HST 9mm going at 1000 fps is pretty close, considering:

In all honesty I don't think the terminal 'improvement' of a 40 caliber XTP, only 15 grains heavier and going 150 fps faster, would even be noticeable.
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At least, that's how I feel. I like the 147 grain 9mm just as much as any of my old .40's, terminally.
 
If I was going to lug something that big around it would be one of my 45 Colts or a G21 in 45 Super.

Now those are real thumpers
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On thinking about picking up a G20, I'm tempted to give .45 Super a try in my G21SF first. That would be easy to do, inexpensive to try, and fun.

Then again, .40S&W 180 gr. HST, approaching 1000 fps, (consistently testing to 18.5" penetration and expansion to .72" in ballistic gel) is a very effective pistol defense load. And from a great pistol like a SIG P320 or M&P40, I'm sure content.

Going to a bigger platform and a heavier recoiling load doesn't have a lot of appeal to me, day to day.
 

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