40S&W not so popular?

There is a lot of subjectivity to all of this, personal preference, etc. No particular choice is "THE BEST", as there is no single best, just different options, each having its own particular set of advantages and drawbacks. Each of us makes our own choice, some choices well founded and reasoned, and some just blindly following someone else. And life goes around and around. Time for me to bow out of the thread as well. Pretty sure we've more than run out the course. Best wishes, as well.
 
Glock 40 s&w pistols are some of the worst designed 40s as far as recoil control since they use the same slide (mass) and recoil spring as their 9mm models. No wonder they're harsh in the recoil department with full house 40 ammo since they're basically designed to run with lightly loaded 9mm.
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The original 9mm Glocks (back when they made only the 17, 18 & 19) were designed to operate safely with ammunition loaded up to 43,500psi according to an old Glock Armorer's manual. That's not exactly lightly loaded.

As far as the slide mass comment, it's really the slide & barrel mass together that determine slide velocity on a locked breech, recoil operated pistol like the ones we're discussing. Which brings me to my question. I'd be interested to see some slide/barrel weight figures for various .40S&W pistols compared to the slide/barrel weight figures for 9mm Glocks that are comparable in barrel length. I don't think I've ever seen that kind of data and it would be informative.
 
This has been a pretty interesting thread. To paraphrase Mike Pence, this thread captures the 'sound of freedom'. I love the fact that we live in a country where we can have this conversation concerning what we choose to carry. That's one of the things I'm thankful for heading into the holiday tomorrow.

Realistically, 9, 40 and 45 will work, just in a slightly different way. In my opinion, 9 will let you poke smaller holes, more accurately and at a slightly faster rate. A 45 will let you poke bigger holes accurately at a nearly the same rate. A 40 will poke mid size holes less accurately at the same rate or just as accurately at a slightly slower rate.

Personally, I like heavy bullets. That does not mean I think anyone that shoots light, fast and accurate bullets is doing anything wrong. I carry 9s and 45s in the summer but do like the 40 for winter carry for a lot of reasons.

I love living in a country where we can make that choice.
 
The original 9mm Glocks (back when they made only the 17, 18 & 19) were designed to operate safely with ammunition loaded up to 43,500psi according to an old Glock Armorer's manual. That's not exactly lightly loaded.
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There are two ends to the function window of a semi auto where it blows up and where it'll cycle and eject/feed reliably. The second parameter would be the one I was referring to. A G19 will run just fine with weak 115 std pressure 9mm.
As far as the slide mass comment, it's really the slide & barrel mass together that determine slide velocity on a locked breech, recoil operated pistol like the ones we're discussing
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Which doesn't help a G23's case as A G23 barrel is lighter.
 
Indy_Tim said:
One of the reasons I like .40 is because of a bit of analysis I did a while back. I calculated the volumetric wound capacity of a bunch of different bullets and calibers to see what the physical capacity to damage of each round was. I calculated it based on a 3 round defensive string as well as a full mag dump. The .45 was very strong in the 3 round category with the .40 nudging very close to it. 9mm was way behind and even 9mm +P lagged significantly. When you looked at the full mag dump capacity to wound, the .45 fell behind and the 9mm improved a bunch. But, the .40 still was way ahead of both in the full mag capacity to wound. For instance, a 3 round return string of fire from a 230g Golden Saber in .45 had approximately a 15 cubic inch capacity to damage. 185g dropped to 14.5 and a 180g .40 came in at 13.5 for 3 rounds. Standard pressure 9mms came in somewhere between 6 to 8 cubic inches of damage with the best +P coming up to 11.7 cubic inches.

Given the evidence that the vast majority of civilian SD shootings are done in 3 rounds (after 3 rounds, folks are either running, calling 911 or bleeding out), I moved more in the direction of the .45. It's still my favorite carry caliber, but I do appreciate the ability of the .40 to provide almost as much capacity to damage per round, yet still push close to the capacity of the 9mm.

The thing most guys leave out of the conversation is that for 9mm to even approach a .40 capacity to wound, you need to run a stout +P round and by doing that, you introduce just as much snappiness to the round as you had in the .40. Most folks compare standard pressure 9mm to .40 when shooting and come away thinking that they don't like .40, but then they load their SD guns with 9mm +P ammo. How many 9mm carriers practice with the same level of power that they carry with? There are some, but they are a small minority among 9mm carriers. The beauty of .40 is that it's always .40. You don't practice with a light round and then carry the full .40. You always have the .40 round when practicing. Or, at least it's very close.
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Now throw in a 357sig into your testing, and see some real stopping power. :)

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
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My wife prefers shooting my XD40 over her G23 in 9mm.

Another "trend" people are talking about is these smaller guns having a bigger presence. I think that as people shoot these little 9s and notice how snappy they are they will continue to migrate toward the .380.

I wouldn't mind having another 9 but I would love more .40s.
 
Realistically, 9, 40 and 45 will work, just in a slightly different way. In my opinion, 9 will let you poke smaller holes, more accurately and at a slightly faster rate. A 45 will let you poke bigger holes accurately at a nearly the same rate. A 40 will poke mid size holes less accurately at the same rate or just as accurately at a slightly slower rate.
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And it has been reported over and over by doctors that the difference in actual effect on the human body from all three calibers is negligible.

You don't want to be shot by any of them, but they are all ineffective in comparison to a rifle round.
 
On some forum some guy was quoting a criminal who had been shot with various handgun cartridges over the years. He said 45acp was the most painful.

The bigger the bullet, the more painful that pill is for the skin to swallow.
 
The problem with doctor's testimony is that they get a bloody mess that's hard to tell what caused the damage. Can they see the difference in the .046 of an inch that separates the bullet diameter visually while while trying to save a life? Probably not. But, if that .046 inch resulted in a sliced artery instead of a nicked artery, then there would have been a huge difference in the results.

It's even worse when the patient is DOA. The doctor only knows that the patient is dead. They don't know how much fight was left in them after taking the fatal hit.

Then, there's this: Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue. Per that article, anything under a .40 is wholly inadequate for SD use. Take it for what it's worth, but I'd trust the guy doing the autopsies over the doctor. The ME gets to take his/her time to figure out what killed a person. The doctor does not have the luxury of time.
 
DHart: said:
Glock forty caliber pistols are especially poor representations of what forty caliber is like in different pistols which were specifically designed for .40S&W.
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Yep I have to agree, I replaced a Gen4 G-22 with a Gen4 G-21 and I never looked back.
 
Departments are typically run by political hires/administrators and know little if anything about what their people do. If the FBI says at this point in-time that the Wonder 9 is the current "best", then said administrators follow in lock-step. First it was the .38Spl/.357Mag, then the 10mm, then the .40, now the 9mm. Eventually it will be something else. Meh. I don't have any little people or seat-warmers to satisfy, and will stick to my .45ACP 1911 and .40BHP.
 
I like the .40S&W. Guns can be had at good prices and the shelves around here are swimming with ammo. As for recoil? I am a bit slower to get back on target but that's about it. Still nice to shoot out of all of the platforms I have shot it out of, those consist of my M&P40, a M&P40c, G27, Shield, S&W 4006. Yep, all this talk has me thinking of picking up a M&P40c or maybe a XDS .40.
 
Targa... check CDNN or Bud's.

M&P40C Goodness


I bought a second one of these (bought my first one in 2007) a few weeks ago, Brand New, with Night Sights, for $379 from CDNN, with free shipping. All I paid beyond $379 was a $20 transfer fee. I couldn't resist at that price. Steal of a price for an exceptional, compact pistol. 10+1=11 rounds of 180 gr HST contained therein.
 
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Glock 40 s&w pistols are some of the worst designed 40s as far as recoil control since they use the same slide (mass) and recoil spring as their 9mm models. No wonder they're harsh in the recoil department with full house 40 ammo since they're basically designed to run with lightly loaded 9mm.
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I have heard similar things before and its probably true. Personally I found my old Glock 23 to be the easiest to shoot .40 that I had tried (XD(m), Glock, Sig 229 and 250, M&P Full size and Ruger SR40c; if I recall correctly).

Perhaps it is just how I shoot, or my general preference for Glocks in non-1911 autoloaders.
 
JR24 ,
I think you're quote is exactly right. The harsh, snappy recoil of the Glock 40 cal. offerings did more to turn people off to the 40 than just about anything. A Glock 22 was the first 40 I ever tried . I absolutely didn't like it. It wasn't until I bought a Beretta 96 police trade in that I got over my preconceived idea that the 40 S&W recoiled to much to be comfortable. Really a damn shame, as the Beretta is a real comfortable pistol to shoot.
I gotta say, that Sig 320 looks like an excellent weapon.:)
 
Old Bill Dibble said:
Our County Deputies carry whatever they want, except what they are not allowed to carry. Probably half carry 1911's and a third carry Glocks...

Things they are not allowed to carry on patrol:
- Revolvers
- Anything smaller or less powerful than 9mm (400 ft/lb)
- .40 S&W
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And what 9mm round gets 400 ft-lbs?
 
Thanks Dhart. I saw that and your right, that's a steel and it really has the wheels turning. I am a big M&P compact fan.
 
I have to be honest. I initially bought a 40cal to have more versatility in case of another ammo shortage. I enjoy shooting my 40 but not as much as my 9mm's or my 45's. The 40 is growing on me though.
 
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