40S&W not so popular?

Fair enough, TunnelRat. We're "at ease". ;)

By the way, I have all of the pistols you listed (well, G17RTF, a few G19s, and an M&P9C) among the "celebrities" you named above. They're all competent pistols (which I have carried at one time or another), but not among my very top choices should "the wolf" be at MY door. If they were all I had at hand, I'd be ok with that. But I have other options that I prefer, as long as I'm doing the choosing.
 
Last edited:
Sarge... excellent treatise on the .40S&W. It truly is a great caliber that some people simply haven't "gotten" the wisdom of, yet. Perhaps they just haven't experieced much past 165 gr defense loads out of a G23, yet? ;)

Fortunately, a great many people are quite well aware of the merits of .40S&W and this caliber will be with us for the duration of our lifetimes, NRA being watchful enough.

I leave with a photo of my favorite defense pistol, as of today, the SIG P320 Full Size 40. Shooting this feels like launching 9mm target loads; it's a honey of a pistol and caliber. And makes accurate hits incredibly effortless. Given the power range of .40S&W, from mild to wild (no, not 10mm, though!)... this is one versatile and exceptional choice.

For defense, I choose 180 gr HST, which performs exceptionally well - even compared to 230 gr HST in .45auto (180 gr HST has much better penetration and nearly as much expansion as 230 gr HST - and is softer/quicker to shoot. And due to its momentum, is less likely to deflect after barriers than lighter weight 9mm rounds are.)

P320 40 - 14+1=15 rounds of 180gr HST goodness. I would choose this over 9mm if "the wolves" were at my door.
 
Last edited:
We're "at ease".
Click to expand...

Yay.

I have all of the pistols you listed (well, G17RTF, a few G19s, and an M&P9C) among the "celebrities" you named above.
Click to expand...

That's what they've been said to use previously, not really a list of my own choosing (nor would I call them "celebrities" but hey whatever makes you happy).

They're all competent pistols (which I have carried at one time or another), but not among my very top choices should "the wolf" be at MY door. If they were all I had at hand, I'd be ok with that. But I have other options that I prefer, as long as I'm doing the choosing.
Click to expand...

Okay.
 
Perceived recoil is a highly subjective thing and I think the key to becoming comfortable with .40 S&W is to have a pistol of sufficient size and weight to handle the recoil easily, maintaining an excellent grip, and just becoming more familiar with the recoil characteristics of the round. I do agree that the recoil of the .40 S&W cartridge does tend to be sharper than 9 mm Luger, or even .45 ACP, and it might not be the best choice for those with arthritic hands or wrists, or limited hand strength.
Click to expand...

pblanc nailed it here. My first experiences with .40 S&W were all with small, light pistols that were optimized for concealed carry. In those guns, the difference between 9mm and .40 felt more like a chasm. It wasn't just the unpleasantness of the recoil but a noticeable impact on time and accuracy that I didn't feel was worth training around. It wasn't until I had the opportunity to try .40 in full-sized guns that I developed an appreciation for it. As for me, the Beretta PX4 Storm has given me my most pleasant and accurate shooting experiences in .40 S&W.
 
.45auto and .40S&W are not ideal calibers for pocket pistols! That's for sure. Reminds me of those who think that .44 special caliber in a vest pocket derringer makes good sense. Sheesh. Come on, folks. Wise UP. Match the platform to the caliber for optimal performance.

In the pocket and sub compact realm (which I rarely make use of) 9mm is definitely the smart choice, where the higher-capacity and soft-shooting benefits of the caliber really pay benefits in spades.

But when you get up to the latest design mid-size and full-size pistols that were actually designed specifically FOR .40S&W (unlike the Glock 23 and Glock 22, which were merely adapted 9mm pistols) and you shoot 180 gr loads, that's where the sweet spot lays for .40S&W and where the caliber wins fans left and right.

In these pistols (M&P40, HK VP40, SIG P320 40, Browning HP 40, etc.), you can have high capacity and easy shootability with .40S&W - with the added benefit of greater terminal ballistics, including significantly more momentum (for bone- and barrier- busting performance with minimized deflection).

Platform and load choice are the key elements which make all the difference in.40S&W being a stellar choice in a defense pistol.

Borrow, rent, or buy one of these modern design .40S&W pistols (NOT a Glock), load it with 180 gr ammo, and discover the joy of this caliber! It truly does combine nearly the potency of .45auto with nearly the capacity of 9mm while being hard-hitting, soft-shooting, quick return-to-target, and a pleasure to practice with.
 
Last edited:
What do ya mean not a Glock? :p

Get a G20 and a 40sw barrel for it and you'll have a soft shooting pistol.

Wanna get serious? Then load up with 10mm. :cool:

I have a G29 and a 40sw barrel for it. handle 40sw just fine.
 
Oysterboy... I have a G29 that I would like to swap for a G20. I wouldn't need it for .40S&W, as I have so many great pistols chambered in .40S&W. But I'd prefer the G20 to the G29 for launching 10mm. That's a caliber that is most appreciated in a large, heavy pistol.

Perhaps I should consider a 10mm conversion for my G21SF.

I'm sure that a G20 would launch .40S&W quite softly. :)
 
"You obviously don't know much about .40S&W, nor have much (if any) direct experience with different pistols chambered in .40S&W."


I will admit that 25 years as a pistol RSO hasn't allowed me the opportunity to shoot every handgun in .40 S&W. Like I said, I don't see a lot of them on the range. I've shot my share but neither the guns themselves nor the caliber impressed me. Then of course there is the Hi-Point .40. Which is a gun, a club, and a doorstop.

I reload all my own pistol ammo and don't see any point in reloading for .40.
 
It will be around for awhile (40 cal)
This debate will be around for awhile as well.
Carry what is comfortable for you.

I had a good laugh at the post about planning for the encounter and carrying his 9 or 45 based on the need for fire or stopping power. What a joke pick one and carry it. We all know dam well if we are ever forced in to a self defense situation we wont have any idea if it will be today tomorrow or never.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Like the .41 Magnum, the .40 S&W has always been unique---but very, very, very, very, very odd.

Now, the Glock GAP .45, that was an idea!
 
Oysterboy said:
What do ya mean not a Glock?
Click to expand...

Glock 40 s&w pistols are some of the worst designed 40s as far as recoil control since they use the same slide (mass) and recoil spring as their 9mm models. No wonder they're harsh in the recoil department with full house 40 ammo since they're basically designed to run with lightly loaded 9mm.

Not surprising that most of the trainers (who are subsidized by Glock) on tunnelrats' list prefer 9mm.
 
TunnelRat said:
Lol. I guess I'm not "involved" enough. Man these threads get priceless the longer they go on. :rolleyes:

Here are some more folks not "involved" enough I suppose:
Travis HaleyGlock 17 9mm (also 9mm M&P)
Massad AyoobGlock 17 9mm
Chris Costa S&W M&P 9mm
Larry VickersGlock 17/19 9mm
Gabe SuarezGlock 17 9mm
Rob Pincus9mm (recommends a variety of handguns in this caliber)
Paul Gomez (RIP)Glock 17/19 9mm
Andy StanfordGlock 19 9mm
Kelly McCannGlock 19 9mm
Jason Falla Glock 17 9mm
Michael JanichGlock 17 9mm
Dave SpauldingGlock 19 9mm (sometimes Ruger SR9c)

This list isn't me saying that these folks are the ultimate trainers, but merely a way of showing that many people from serious backgrounds who are at least generally well regarded do use 9mm.

Listen, I don't think 9mm is magical. If you like 40SW that's great and I don't doubt that you have your reasons. But let's ease up on the arguments that seek to make it seem like 9mm is only for plebs.
Click to expand...
Something to consider.....

The people referred to here make their living as trainers. As such, the easier the platform to train on, the easier their job is. That's why most trainers push the Glock 19 as the "best choice".....it's the easiest platform to train.

When you talk to people who fight instead of training others for a living, the choices get more diverse....
 
DHart said:
Borrow, rent, or buy one of these modern design .40S&W pistols (NOT a Glock), load it with 180 gr ammo, and discover the joy of this caliber!
Click to expand...

I have to disagree.

I have owned the M&P fullsize and compact in 40, and shot them with the 180gr ammo you recommend, and really did not care for the feel of the round.

I even prefer the feel of .357Sig in both of those platforms.

I'm sure if 40 cal. was my only choice, I would be able to make it work, but with other choices available it's just not for me.
 
40S&W not so popular?

seeker_two said:
Something to consider.....

The people referred to here make their living as trainers. As such, the easier the platform to train on, the easier their job is. That's why most trainers push the Glock 19 as the "best choice".....it's the easiest platform to train.

When you talk to people who fight instead of training others for a living, the choices get more diverse....
Click to expand...

Many of these people did fight for a living and used the same caliber at the time.

I'm not so disconnected from reality that I don't realize money changes hands in this industry, but I don't think these folks would carry a caliber they thought put them at a disadvantage just for some promotional money (if you think differently that's your call). Then we have other organizations such as the Navy SEALs and MARSOC recently deciding to use Glocks in 9mm as well. Yea I know 9mm NATO is the standard sidearm cartridge, but units at these levels can often field whatever they want, hence how the SEALs used the HK45c or the Mk 23 before that or the Colt railed 1911s MARSOC bought some years ago. And yes these aren't the only organizations that matter and no I don't base all of my decisions off of others. These are examples for points that were brought up.

For the idk how many timeth, I have not stated here that 9mm is the penultimate round. What I disagreed with is the notion that 9mm is only for the uneducated masses lacking experience. This goes to the attitude I mentioned earlier that seems inseparable from the Trojan horse caliber war threads that show up every few months without fail. Me saying that there are professionals that do choose 9mm is not akin to saying 9mm is the best or other calibers suck.
 
Last edited:
:D Good gawd, LOL, ... there's some seriously major butt-hurt breaking through in this thread.

The current trend of .40-dumpage and abandonment will continue as more and more users upgrade to the 10mm AUTO, having finally realized that's what their .40 pistols want to be anyway. ;)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top