40S&W not so popular?
- Thread starter t45
- Start date
"...what the FBI uses..." Kind of daft doing that. The FBI is not and never has been any kind of arbiter of what is and is not what pistol/calibre one should buy/carry. Especially as they went to the .40 due to trying to compensate for poor training.
Cops everywhere carry what they're told to carry. What that is usually depends on what company gave the pencil pushers the best deal. Rarely has anything to do with anything else.
"...your autoloader collection..." No such thing as a .40 S&W collector piece.
"...Capacity is a gun-design issue..." Nope. Mostly about the size of the cartridge.
Cops everywhere carry what they're told to carry. What that is usually depends on what company gave the pencil pushers the best deal. Rarely has anything to do with anything else.
"...your autoloader collection..." No such thing as a .40 S&W collector piece.
"...Capacity is a gun-design issue..." Nope. Mostly about the size of the cartridge.
Old Bill Dibble
New member
Our County Deputies carry whatever they want, except what they are not allowed to carry. Probably half carry 1911's and a third carry Glocks...
Things they are not allowed to carry on patrol:
- Revolvers
- Anything smaller or less powerful than 9mm (400 ft/lb)
- .40 S&W
WRONG - you forgot about the many who love .40S&W, which is my first choice as a defense caliber. .45auto is second. 9mm in third place. I love .40S&W and chose it as my carry-gun caliber because it combines ballistic capability near that of .45auto with capacity near that of 9mm - and is wonderfully soft shooting and enjoyable to shoot.
You obviously don't know much about .40S&W, nor have much (if any) direct experience with different pistols chambered in .40S&W.
Owning and comparing my G23 Gen 3, G23 Gen 4, G22 Gen 4, two Browning HiPower 40s, STI Edge 40, M&P40, two M&P40 Compacts, HK VP40, SIG 229, SIG P320 40's in Full, Carry, & Compact sizes - I have a relatively thorough experience with the caliber.
It's an awesome caliber that is exceptionally comfortable and enjoyable to shoot depending on your choice of platform (anything BUT Glocks) and bullet weight (180 gr is awesome - feels like a very soft shooting version of 230 gr .45 - NOT "snappy").
Anyone who thinks that firing 165 gr defense loads in a Glock 23 (admittedly a comparatively unpleasant combination, as compared to other options) equates to "knowing" the .40S&W caliber has got a good bit of growing to do.
I think most people who say .40 is uncomfortably "snappy" to shoot say so either through hearsay or from having fired 165 gr defense loads in a Glock 23.
Fire some 180 gr defense loads in an M&P40, SIG P320, SIG 229, Browning HiPower 40, HK VP40, or an STI Edge and your opinion of .40S&W caliber will forever be changed. It's a pure pleasure to shoot, given a proper platform for the caliber. Great momentum/barrier busting without deflection, high capacity, and a joy to shoot - all the reasons why .40S&W is such a great caliber. Anyone who hasn't experienced this personally doesn't understand the wisdom of choosing .40S&W.
For those who require lower recoil, less costly ammo, or a small pocket-size pistol, 9mm is a perfectly acceptable alternative, but it is not necessarily a "better" choice as a caliber. It is just a different choice with different suitabilities.
.40S&W remains a great choice as a defensive caliber and will continue to be one of the three most popular pistol calibers you can choose from for many years to come.
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How do you know when you're going to need high capacity rather than potency? (You can have both at the same time with .40S&W)
How do you know when you're going to need "stopping" power rather than capacity? (You can have both at the same time with .40S&W)
EVERY caliber is a "compromise" cartridge.
You're seeing the glass as half-empty.
Seeing the glass half-full:
.40S&W combines nearly the terminal performance of .45auto with nearly the capacity of 9mm, so you get most of the best of both worlds!
Said another way: .40S&W combines more power than 9mm AND more capacity than .45auto!
Thus, you don't HAVE to try to decide WHEN you need more capacity, nor WHEN you need more power.
You can have the best of both worlds all in one pistol!
And... choose your forty caliber platform and defense load well and you'll find the shooting experience to be a joyful pleasure!
For me, these pistols offer the perfect "blend" of power, capacity, and performance, with very soft-shooting enjoyment.
SIG P320 40 with 14+1 = 15 round capacity
M&P40 with 15+1 = 16 round capacity
STI Edge with 16+1 = 17 round capacity
M&P40C with 10+1 = 11 round capacity
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tahunua001
New member
simple, it's called planning. you look at mission requirements, what resources you have and then select the resources most appropriate to your mission.
if my mission is protect myself against bad guys, then 9mm is more than sufficient for power and offers better capacity than 45, therefore it is more appropriate for the mission. alternately if my mission is to protect myself against cougar, wolves, and blackbear, then I want a lot of weight, penetration, and not necessarily a lot of capacity, therefore, a 45 would be more suitable for that application. if I'm carrying in town, my odds of being mauled by an angry black bear sow is a lot lower than getting mugged, hence I should plan to pack a 9mm. in the woods, odds of getting attacked by a 2 legged animal are pretty low while the 4 legged variety abound aplenty so 45 suits that purpose best.
true to a point, however most cartridges gain one strength while giving up another. that is the difference between a jack of all trades and a subject matter expert. true, it may give you more power than the 9mm and more capacity than the 45, but it will never be as effective at either field as the alternatives.
Nope, complete wrong. It's a gun-design issue.
Otherwise 10mm 1911s and 10mm Glocks would hold the same number of rounds in the magazine.
Obviously they don't. That's what makes it a gun-design issue ...
Focus, dudenal, and repeat after me: capacity is a gun-design issue ...
capacity is a gun-design issue
capacity is a gun-design issue
capacity is a gun-design issue
capacity is a gun-design issue
capacity is a gun-design issue
capacity is a gun-design issue
capacity is a gun-design issue ...
Once you've grasped it, you can thank me later.
Agreed, everyone needs to carry/shoot whatever makes them happy.
Personally, I dumped my .40's a while back since I shoot both 9mm and .45 ACP better. Figure for carry/HD 17+1 in my Glock 17 will get the job done, and if I feel the need for more "pop", I've got a 10mm or .357 mag.
Some planning for caliber choice, such as where you need to be prepared for potentially dangerous animals (camping in the woods) is fairly simple.
But there are many circumstances where having to choose between 45 and 9mm is not so simple. If you can have the option to combine near .45auto capability with near 9mm capacity - that's awesome! And you can avoid having two different calibers, if that's an important factor for someone.
I'm fortunate to have numerous pistols in these three calibers and more. I like .45auto a lot, as well as .40S&W. I like 9mm also, but primarily for times when I'm restricted to carry a very small pistol - that's where 9mm really shines.
Even while having a great selection of forty-fives and nines, forty is most often THE sweet spot for my defensive pistol needs!
Forty offers an intelligent blend of .45 and 9mm, offering the best of both worlds in one very capable pistol!
No worries, folks, .40S&W isn't going away at all. It will continue to be one of the three most popular, widely-used calibers for many years to come.
Food for thought - even non-mainstream or relatively less-popular calibers like 10mm, .357 magnum, .44 magnum, .44 special, .45 Colt, etc. are quite readily available pretty much wherever you go in America. .40S&W is far more widely purchased and used than those calibers and will certainly be around as long as any of them are.
But there are many circumstances where having to choose between 45 and 9mm is not so simple. If you can have the option to combine near .45auto capability with near 9mm capacity - that's awesome! And you can avoid having two different calibers, if that's an important factor for someone.
I'm fortunate to have numerous pistols in these three calibers and more. I like .45auto a lot, as well as .40S&W. I like 9mm also, but primarily for times when I'm restricted to carry a very small pistol - that's where 9mm really shines.
Even while having a great selection of forty-fives and nines, forty is most often THE sweet spot for my defensive pistol needs!
Forty offers an intelligent blend of .45 and 9mm, offering the best of both worlds in one very capable pistol!
No worries, folks, .40S&W isn't going away at all. It will continue to be one of the three most popular, widely-used calibers for many years to come.
Food for thought - even non-mainstream or relatively less-popular calibers like 10mm, .357 magnum, .44 magnum, .44 special, .45 Colt, etc. are quite readily available pretty much wherever you go in America. .40S&W is far more widely purchased and used than those calibers and will certainly be around as long as any of them are.
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Well, among other uses, there's the highly versatile 10mm AUTO. Maybe you've heard of it ...
It's been pulling duty as a camping, hiking, fishing, hunting, and backwoods/boonies sidearm for decades.
Heck, the Danish Artic Circle military units (Sledge Patrol Sirius) carry the Glock 20 loaded hot for defense against aggressive Polar bears.
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What's with the attitude and why quote me? I have a Delta Elite and Glock 29 to include in my plans for times when I want 10mm. And revolvers in .357 mag and .44 mag for times when they are appropriate.
Why ask if I've "heard of" 10mm? It's a fine choice for appropriate circumstances and that's why I have two of them.
Are you feeling that 10mm is not being represented well enough in this conversation?
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Of course 10mm is among the options, depending on the application! And a great choice for out in the wilds! It is not likely the optimal choice for many gun buyer's needs, though.
There are good reasons why we have so many calibers... they each offer particular attributes for particular circumstances. No single caliber is "the best" across all applications.
Of course, there are a great many gun buyers who are not deeply involved "gun people", who might be intimidated by a pistol chambered in a larger caliber, and may only buy but one pistol that they expect will serve their every firearm need. I guess if you just want to have one pistol for home defense and possibly as a carry gun, and you feel it has to be small and light weight, and as inexpensive to shoot as possible, and be as easy to shoot as possible, 9mm absolutely makes sense.
For those who trumpet that 9mm is the be-all, do-all, only caliber choice for all to embrace - sorry - it is not for every person, nor for every application, and it never will be. It will be a very popular caliber among the masses, but not the first choice as a defensive caliber for many people.
For the more involved firearms person who appreciates and wishes to cover more bases... 40 offers more capability and is a very viable choice.
.40S&W will remain a popular caliber for a great many years to come. And it is quite likely still the most widely used law enforcement caliber in the USA.
In addition, every police turn-in pistol on the used firearm market, regardless of caliber, will be absorbed by the buying public! And all those pistols will need to be fed with ammunition. .40S&W has a strong future presence.
There are good reasons why we have so many calibers... they each offer particular attributes for particular circumstances. No single caliber is "the best" across all applications.
Of course, there are a great many gun buyers who are not deeply involved "gun people", who might be intimidated by a pistol chambered in a larger caliber, and may only buy but one pistol that they expect will serve their every firearm need. I guess if you just want to have one pistol for home defense and possibly as a carry gun, and you feel it has to be small and light weight, and as inexpensive to shoot as possible, and be as easy to shoot as possible, 9mm absolutely makes sense.
For those who trumpet that 9mm is the be-all, do-all, only caliber choice for all to embrace - sorry - it is not for every person, nor for every application, and it never will be. It will be a very popular caliber among the masses, but not the first choice as a defensive caliber for many people.
For the more involved firearms person who appreciates and wishes to cover more bases... 40 offers more capability and is a very viable choice.
.40S&W will remain a popular caliber for a great many years to come. And it is quite likely still the most widely used law enforcement caliber in the USA.
In addition, every police turn-in pistol on the used firearm market, regardless of caliber, will be absorbed by the buying public! And all those pistols will need to be fed with ammunition. .40S&W has a strong future presence.
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lee n. field
New member
And, to put it yet another way: if 12 rounds of .40 won't fix a problem, would the jump to 15 rounds of 9mm make the difference?
Lol. I guess I'm not "involved" enough. Man these threads get priceless the longer they go on.
Here are some more folks not "involved" enough I suppose:
Travis Haley Glock 17 9mm (also 9mm M&P)
Massad Ayoob Glock 17 9mm
Chris Costa S&W M&P 9mm
Larry Vickers Glock 17/19 9mm
Gabe Suarez Glock 17 9mm
Rob Pincus 9mm (recommends a variety of handguns in this caliber)
Paul Gomez (RIP) Glock 17/19 9mm
Andy Stanford Glock 19 9mm
Kelly McCann Glock 19 9mm
Jason Falla Glock 17 9mm
Michael Janich Glock 17 9mm
Dave Spaulding Glock 19 9mm (sometimes Ruger SR9c)
This list isn't me saying that these folks are the ultimate trainers, but merely a way of showing that many people from serious backgrounds who are at least generally well regarded do use 9mm.
Listen, I don't think 9mm is magical. If you like 40SW that's great and I don't doubt that you have your reasons. But let's ease up on the arguments that seek to make it seem like 9mm is only for plebs.
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TunnelRat... whatever, dude. Knock yourself out. A number of those folks are marketers/merchandisers of those very pistols you listed!
But 9mm isn't a bad choice. Though it's far from being "the best" or "the only" choice. It is just a choice. Some choose it. Some don't. So be it. It's not a RELIGION. (Or is it, for some?)
There are times when I choose 9mm myself. But I'm far from being a 9mm fanboy! And it's not my first choice in a defense caliber.
Do as you wish and I'll do the same.
I make my own decisions about what calibers and which firearms will serve me the best, depending on the situation. You should do the same.
But 9mm isn't a bad choice. Though it's far from being "the best" or "the only" choice. It is just a choice. Some choose it. Some don't. So be it. It's not a RELIGION. (Or is it, for some?)
There are times when I choose 9mm myself. But I'm far from being a 9mm fanboy! And it's not my first choice in a defense caliber.
Do as you wish and I'll do the same.
I make my own decisions about what calibers and which firearms will serve me the best, depending on the situation. You should do the same.
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