357 Ring Of Fire Update

Yup and its the primary reason nobody chambers their pistols in that caliber.
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And you know this because you've talked directly with many gun manufacturers?

Or did you make this up out of thin air?
 
Starline states this brass is good for 45k psi.
Dave
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Full speed ahead!:D how about some target accuracy pics?:)
And you know this because you've talked directly with many gun manufacturers?
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Actually, now that you mention it, I have talked to quite a few--and have never been able to pry any info out of any of them other than if I use anything other than factory SAAMI spec ammo for which the firearm was originally chambered for--I was on my own. then again I'm just Joe Nobody, so maybe it depends who you are?:)

I've also heard from a certain "specialty" ammo manufacturer that there are certain "type x" powders that are not commonly available to regular retail customers that enable them to get extra performance without going way out there with pressures.
 
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Seems like some of the haters in this thread should be helping themselves to a healthy serving of crow.

Ahem . . .

I hear it's best served hot.
 
Seems like some of the haters in this thread should be helping themselves to a healthy serving of crow.
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to the contrary, it appears that David has created a new cartridge that roughly approximates the size, case capacity and ballpark performance of an existing cartridge.....

I am underwhelmed.
 
A 9X23 factory load does that.
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Yup. There were only two possibilities from the beginning and that's one of them.

Possibility 1: The ROF would operate at dangerous pressures.
Possibility 2: The ROF would not meet its stated goal of outperforming existing straight-walled/non-bottlenecked autopistol 9mm/.357 rounds sized for the 1911/10mm size platform.
Seems like some of the haters in this thread should be helping themselves to a healthy serving of crow.
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Why? The OP claimed that this cartridge would outperform existing non-bottlenecked 9mm/.357 autopistol cartridges which would fit in a 10mm magazine. Since it duplicates 9x23 performance, that claim is incorrect.

The statements about unsafe pressure were predicated on the claim that the cartridge would outperform the 9x23. Since that claim was incorrect and the cartridge doesn't outperform the 9x23, the worries about unsafe pressure are much reduced, though perhaps not totally eliminated.
 
Possibility 2: The ROF would not meet its stated goal of outperforming existing autopistol 9mm/.357 rounds sized for the 1911/10mm size platform.
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Except the OP never mentioned a 1911 platform. IIRC he is using a Glock because capacity is his concern. Funny how he wants one shot stopping power but 17 rounds to do it.
 
Seems like some of the haters in this thread should be helping themselves to a healthy serving of crow.
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Yes quite to the contrary the ring of flameout does nothing that the 38 Super and 9x23 can't, I have a nice 150gr SWC load that does 1200fps and works in a factory Colt non ramped barrel, I have no doubt I could hot rod it a smidge and match the ballistics now that Dave is limiting it to 45k psi.
 
Actually, now that you mention it, I have talked to quite a few--and have never been able to pry any info out of any of them other than if I use anything other than factory SAAMI spec ammo for which the firearm was originally chambered for--I was on my own. then again I'm just Joe Nobody, so maybe it depends who you are?
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Sure. But what should we expect them to say? They know that ammo made by manufacturers that adhere to SAAMI specs will be safe, because their guns are engineered to be safe with that ammo.

On the other hand, they have no control over what some yahoo might load. Some folks might try to produce super-duper Magnum loads with inappropriate powders, and we know what will happen in those cases.

I've also heard from a certain "specialty" ammo manufacturer that there are certain "type x" powders that are not commonly available to regular retail customers that enable them to get extra performance without going way out there with pressures.
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Sure. But we have enough variety in powders that we can duplicate most factory loads and stay within SAAMI pressure limits. There might be a few 'special' loads we can't. But we can also exceed some factory loads with the right selection of components. For example, even the boutique companies such as Buffalo Bore limit their 38 Super loads with 124 grain bullets to 1350 fps. Handloaders can push those same bullets faster (up to 1450 fps) with powders like Accurate #7 and Vit N105 based on actual pressure tested data, and that's staying within SAAMI specifications.

Handloading is always an adventure when approaching SAAMI pressure limits. Not all barrels are the same and some will show pressure signs with the same loads that show no pressure signs in other barrels. The details of barrel and ammo specs are important. That's why it's important that we work our loads up to make sure they're safe in our gun. I once worked up some 10mm loads in my Witness using published data. I worked up to the max published load and everything was just fine - no evidence of excess pressure. No problems. I then tried that same ammo in another gun, and it was blowing the primers out of the case!! I had to crank it way down for the other gun.

I have two 38 super barrels that are also wacky. The short one (5") will show faster velocity and no pressure signs with the same ammo that clocks slower in the long barrel (5.5") that does show pressure signs. Again, we have to work the loads up for our particular guns (barrels) because they are different than the ones used by the manufacturers for their tests.
 
Dave, it appears to me you're trying to use equivalent pressures to the 10mm or 9x 25 dillon out of a case that has roughly 40% less available usable capacity.
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That's the point I was getting at. Because of that limited capacity he was using faster burning powder to get the velocities.

In other words, he was getting close to making a bomb.
 
I've also heard from a certain "specialty" ammo manufacturer that there are certain "type x" powders that are not commonly available to regular retail customers that enable them to get extra performance without going way out there with pressures.
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There are certainly non-canister powders that OEM loaders can use to soup up their ammo somewhat.
The Bigs are loading to long time standard velocity. A wide selection of powder lets them 1. save money and 2. get standard velocity at less than maximum pressure... sometimes, when the economics work out.
The boutique ammo companies pick and choose powder to get more velocity than standard and I have the perception that they are also willing to crowd the maximum pressure closer than the Bigs.
Some specialty makers don't need no stinkin' specifications. One brand had ammo with amazing performance. A gunzine writer got some into a P/V barrel and found it considerably overloaded.
 
Personally I think would lose my mind trying to figure out the intricacies of getting 357/9mm diameter differences to live well together depending on the barrel, chamber, bullet and brass dimensions, but I'm not experienced with that sort of thing.:)
 
All

Hi guys,
Has anyone compared a 9mm round and a 40 or 45 where all rounds deliver the same or similar energies in Ft-lbs, in ballistic gel to compare penetration?
 
I sure don't know where Dave will end up in his efforts, but having experimented a bit myself with higher end loads in 9X19mm, Super 38, 9X23 Winchester and even Col. Cooper's "Super 9" caliber years ago, I'll continue to follow this discussion with interest. Given some of the responses directed at him, I think Dave has been more polite during this discussion than I might have been....
 
Rock185

Thank you Rock...it's been difficult, but I consider some comments from folks who can only buy their underwear from Kmart...and continue to do my best.
 
Thank you Rock...it's been difficult, but I consider some comments from folks who can only buy their underwear from Kmart...and continue to do my best.
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Really Dave? You took an existing cartridge and overcharge it. Nothing new about it.
 
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