.357 Magnum vs. .45 ACP
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spacecoast
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Webley -
I agree with you, but would rather not endure the supersonic crack as well as the overall concussion to my ears when enclosed by walls or a car, when there are perfectly capable subsonic alternatives. Come to think of it, a .45 ACP revolver loaded with 230 gr. HPs might combine the best of the simplicity and reliability of the revolver with the stopping power and subsonic velocity of the .45.
We have a .357 Taurus Ti 7 shot revolver with the factory barrel porting and ribbed rubber grip, also have a Glock 30 SF.
My wife would pick the Taurus because she likes the feel of the grip better; also, it won't malfunction if it's limp wristed.
I would take the Glock 30 SF. Potentially holds 4 more rounds. Quicker 2nd shot.
Out of the ported short barrel the .357 still produces respectable power:
Taurus .357 snubby (ported): Federal 125 JHP (magnum) 1,143 fps / 363# KE / .63 momentum
Glock 30 Federal 230 HS 807 fps / 332# KE / .82 momentum
Out of the short ported barrel the .357 mag doesn't hold a significant KE advantage; however, the 45 does produce appreciably more momentum.
My wife would pick the Taurus because she likes the feel of the grip better; also, it won't malfunction if it's limp wristed.
I would take the Glock 30 SF. Potentially holds 4 more rounds. Quicker 2nd shot.
Out of the ported short barrel the .357 still produces respectable power:
Taurus .357 snubby (ported): Federal 125 JHP (magnum) 1,143 fps / 363# KE / .63 momentum
Glock 30 Federal 230 HS 807 fps / 332# KE / .82 momentum
Out of the short ported barrel the .357 mag doesn't hold a significant KE advantage; however, the 45 does produce appreciably more momentum.
The noise of a .357 Magnum is highly dependant upon what you load it with. Personally, I find the full-bore 125grn JHP's to be the most offensive to my ears while the heavier 140-158grn loadings are much more bearable. The noise of the heavier loadings doesn't seem to be as "sharp" as that of the lighter, faster ones. Rather than the sharp "crack" of the 125grn loadings, the heavier bullets seem to produce more of a deep "boom" more akin to the sound of a larger caliber.
Also, I very much doubt that I'd notice the difference in a SD situation because of auditory exclusion. While auditory exclusion won't save me from the permanent hearing damage that is likely from either caliber, it will keep me from being completely deafened and thusly immediately impaired.
spacecoast
New member
Agreed, another data point which I think supports the (relative) ear-friendliness of the heavy .38 or .45 rounds.
I carried a S&W M-66 in 6 inch .357 mag then switched to the Ruger GP-100 4" in the 357. Then we transitioned to semi's and started carrying the Beretta 92 in 9.mm. The came the Sig Sauer P226 in .40 cal. Now, I carry a Springfiled XD-45. I never felt under gunned with any of these handguns but I feel best with the XD-45. Just a real secure feeling having 14 rounds of .45 ACP.
So in the on going .357 mag vs the .45 ACP debate, score another vote for the .45.
So in the on going .357 mag vs the .45 ACP debate, score another vote for the .45.
spacecoast said:
One can find certain brands & loads of ammo at the extreme edges of useability, especially for self defense. If your intention is to argue that the .357 Mag is superior to the 10mm auto based on upper-end .357 loads you may be disappointed. Most of the original (Norma) Loadings of the 10mm produced 700+ ft-lbs of energy. Later loadings were downrated to prevent beating the frames of certain pistols to death. While "snappy", these loads were useful. The .357 in the heavier loads really starts pushing out recovery time between shots.
I like the ballistics of the 10mm better than the .357. And I like the .41 Magnum even more. My favorite caliber punches a 210gr JHP downrange at 1300 fps (788 fpe) or it will throw a 240gr @ 1250 fps (833 fpe). The "light loads" consist of either a 175gr JHP @ 1250 (607 fpe) or a 210gr LSWC at 100 fps (564 fpe).
S&W Model 57, .41 Magnum
The .41 Magnum suffers from a lack of a good, standardized ".41 Special" load for serious social encounters. In the few police shootings where a .41 Mag was used, the "Police" load of a 210gr LSWC @ 1100 fps tended to anchor perpetrators quite well. In years past, we loaded 220gr LSWC-HP to about 990 fps (480 fpe) which would drop Wolves in the 130-150 pound range like they'd been hit with an anvil.
Noise... Your hearing will be affected in any shooting engagement unless you happen to be wearing hearing protection. It may take some time to recover some of your hearing, no matter what caliber/load you use.
For a good idea of the difference between auto and magnum loads, watch this 55-second video of a Montana traffic stop. The cop lucks out with the perp's .41 Magnum hits an empty case. But note the difference in sounds between the .41 and .40 S&W used by the officer.
Just keep in mind that those who served in WW-II aboard aircraft were subjected to high-noise... 4 P&W radial engines droning away, open windows and the clatter of .50 BMG's. Tank crews had engines plus the guns to deal with. Even ground troops firing M1's lacked ear protection. Likely the blood pounding in their ears offset some of the damage done by the sounds.
Spacecoast said:
Works for me!
S&W Model 25, .45ACP, 3" barrel, 230gr Hydrashok ammo.
spacecoast
New member
BillCA -
My documentation of some higher-end .357 cartridges was in response was to Catfishman's assertion that because 10mm came in higher energy loadings than the .357, it is inherently superior. In no way was I trying to convince anyone that any 700+ ft-lb energy load is useful for defensive or law enforcement purposes. Using those high end loads without ear protection would be about as uselful as hitting yourself over the head with a hammer to my way of thinking, and with similar results.
Catfishman
New member
It's odd you didn't cite the Double Tap 135 fr. 10mm with 767 ft-lbs of energy.
It's also interesting that you didn't mention that the Double Tap 125 gr. .357 JHP with 710 ft-lbs needs a 6" barrel to get there.
And there's nothing "paltry" about any of these rounds. The 10 is a little hotter. It's a fact. Now if you want to put your .357 in a rifle, that's another story.
I usually wear hearing protection. But I have fired both .357 and 10mm without it and I'd say the .357 is louder to the shooter. But that is a non-issue if someone is trying to kill me.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm just reminding people that there is a semi-auto round out there that is very powerful and can be handled by an average skilled and sized shooter.
.45 fans I agree diameter matters. .357 fans I agree speed matters. Guess what? You can have a bullet faster that a hot loaded .357 and not too much smaller that a .45. What's not to like?
kmrcstintn
New member
I find this comparison to be interesting; for open carry at private property hunting camp I chose a Ruger SP101 w/ 3" barrel and the .357 magnum load I choose to load is CCI Blazer Brass 158gr jhp; a youtube member tested this same projectile in the aluminum cased ammo that is @ 100 fps less and it stayed intact while others he tested fragmented; here's the links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0n7xLs00Do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLpvLPfUVwk&NR=1
I was considering a .45 acp as a HD, SD, open carry @ hunting camp, but chose a Sig Sauer P239 SAS Dak in .40...awesome piece!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0n7xLs00Do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLpvLPfUVwk&NR=1
I was considering a .45 acp as a HD, SD, open carry @ hunting camp, but chose a Sig Sauer P239 SAS Dak in .40...awesome piece!!!
Regarding the level of sound from a .357 or 10mm. You guys are missing the point! My comment is NOT about whether the risk of hearing loss is preferable to dropping the bad guy. No, what I'm addressing is purely tactical. When I accidentily fired my 10mm without hearing protection, I was physically startled by the level of sound, and it hurt to the point where I wanted to grab my ears. This was outside, not inside. If I were in a defensive situation, I most likely would have hesitated firing followup rounds due to the painful sound of the 10mm cartridge.
I have also fired 9mm, .38 special, and have been around .45 being fired without hearing protection. Although, not pleasent, it's simply no the same as the 10mm. I just offer this as "food for thought", because I'd bet that many, if not all of you who have fired 10mm have never happened to fire it without hearing protection. Now, think about emptying a magazine with 15 rounds of 10mm.....with no hearing protection
Mike Irwin
Staff
"If your ear's aren't bleeding, you're not firing a real gun!"
Said by someone who is now stone deaf.
Said by someone who is now stone deaf.
actually due to auditory exclusion (sp) you probably wouldn't even notice the sound at all and wouldn't notice the ringing in your ears until well after gunfire is over.
while I agree the 38 special and 45 acp are in a different league.9mm and 40 S&W (when using SD loads) are just as loud as most SD 10mm loadings.
My prefered 9mm load 124gr +p golddot is just as loud as my prefered 10mm load Georgia arms 180gr golddots
[sarcasm] geez you plan on being attacked by a mob of 30+ bad guys.I mean with all the talk of overpenatration I'd think each round of 10mm would be good for 3-4 bad guys[sarcasm]
spacecoast
New member
Don't they have some kind of MIRV warhead for the 10mm? 
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