stargazer65
New member
Dang, someone called my bluff already!
Ok, I've never been attacked, but I'm sure it's because I'm carrying the 22 now. Back before I started carrying the 22 it must have just been dumb luck that I wasn't attacked.
22 for ccw
- Thread starter Puntmefar
- Start date
- Status
Dang, someone called my bluff already!
Ok, I've never been attacked, but I'm sure it's because I'm carrying the 22 now. Back before I started carrying the 22 it must have just been dumb luck that I wasn't attacked.
mikejonestkd
New member
I often carry a .22 in the woods, and would feel comfortable using it in a SD situation if a larger caliber firearm was not readily available. it would not be a first choice but it certainly beats a pointed stick.
I have had very good reliability with modern .22 rimfire ammo, and am not sure where some members are getting their data from concerning the supposed inherent unreliability of rimfire ammo. As others have mentioned, match ammo simply HAS to fire everytime or the manufacturer is going to get alot of nasty phone calls from competitors.
I have had very good reliability with modern .22 rimfire ammo, and am not sure where some members are getting their data from concerning the supposed inherent unreliability of rimfire ammo. As others have mentioned, match ammo simply HAS to fire everytime or the manufacturer is going to get alot of nasty phone calls from competitors.
Self defense isn't about "comfort zones" its about staying alive. If your serious about defending yourself you'll get the right tool for the job. A 22 is not the right tool for the job. A 250lb assailant on drugs isn't even going to notice those little holes in his chest until its all over. You can't pick your attacker.
If it was about comfort we wouldn't wear seatbelts, lifejackets, safety glasses, etc etc.
If it was about comfort we wouldn't wear seatbelts, lifejackets, safety glasses, etc etc.
People's Mathematical Skills Never Cease to Amaze me...
What 'tipoc' quoted was that he generally experienced a .22lr misfire or malfunction once in about every 300 rounds. However, he came to expect it around once in every 200, allowing himself the benefit of not being surprised or taken back if a malfunction came before expected. This is wise, and as sheepdogs, we all tend to think like this.
Just for reference 1/200 does not equal 2%. It equals 0.5% And this figure is the "inflated" probable rate of failure.
Just for the sake of the argument, I'll round everything up.
In my state, there are around 1/300 people that even have a permit to carry their weapons. This is a very VERY conservative estimate found in a relatively reliable online article.
Of those people carrying their weapons, less than 10% carry to a very high degree (i.e. every day) if at all. So we'll round up and say that you have a 1/8 chance of carrying your gun.
As of the current climate in my state, the average violent crime per capita rate is about 1/215 per year.
Of the instances of violent crime which involves the drawing of a firearm, well over 90% of the confrontations are solved by the presentation of the firearm alone without discharge. We'll give the benefit of the doubt on that one and call it 1/10 that involved actually firing the gun.
So, in a given year, carrying a .22lr for defense my chances of actually having to fire my gun in a confrontation is about 1/5,160,000.
Of that, the "inflated" probable rate of failure for the cartridge I would be using if I were using low-grade ammunition, is 0.5% or .005, or 1/200
My chances of even HAVING a misfire in this situation? 1/1,032,000,000
Oh, and keep in mind, this was all EXTREMELY conservative.
~LT
Oh, and keep in mind, TAP-RACK-BANG! or simply pull your revolver's trigger again.
-Because the chances of your next round being a misfire... 1/206,400,000,000
That's 1 in Two Hundred and Six Trillion, Four Hundred Billion to those who can't read significant figures.
I'll bet if you went to Vegas, you'd sit in front of a single slot machine for a week.
What 'tipoc' quoted was that he generally experienced a .22lr misfire or malfunction once in about every 300 rounds. However, he came to expect it around once in every 200, allowing himself the benefit of not being surprised or taken back if a malfunction came before expected. This is wise, and as sheepdogs, we all tend to think like this.
Just for reference 1/200 does not equal 2%. It equals 0.5% And this figure is the "inflated" probable rate of failure.
Just for the sake of the argument, I'll round everything up.
In my state, there are around 1/300 people that even have a permit to carry their weapons. This is a very VERY conservative estimate found in a relatively reliable online article.
Of those people carrying their weapons, less than 10% carry to a very high degree (i.e. every day) if at all. So we'll round up and say that you have a 1/8 chance of carrying your gun.
As of the current climate in my state, the average violent crime per capita rate is about 1/215 per year.
Of the instances of violent crime which involves the drawing of a firearm, well over 90% of the confrontations are solved by the presentation of the firearm alone without discharge. We'll give the benefit of the doubt on that one and call it 1/10 that involved actually firing the gun.
So, in a given year, carrying a .22lr for defense my chances of actually having to fire my gun in a confrontation is about 1/5,160,000.
Of that, the "inflated" probable rate of failure for the cartridge I would be using if I were using low-grade ammunition, is 0.5% or .005, or 1/200
My chances of even HAVING a misfire in this situation? 1/1,032,000,000
Oh, and keep in mind, this was all EXTREMELY conservative.
~LT
Oh, and keep in mind, TAP-RACK-BANG! or simply pull your revolver's trigger again.
-Because the chances of your next round being a misfire... 1/206,400,000,000
That's 1 in Two Hundred and Six Trillion, Four Hundred Billion to those who can't read significant figures.
I'll bet if you went to Vegas, you'd sit in front of a single slot machine for a week.
Last edited:
I've carried a .22lr semi-auto before and didn't worry too much about the round's adequacy and did enjoy the concealability. However, these days, you can get pistols that are lighter, smaller than most .22's, but in .32acp or even .380. If .380 recoil in a tiny, lightweight gun is a concern, the .32acp may be a good way to go. Not that I put too much stock into those "one shot stop" statistics, but they do suggest the .32 would be two or even three times as likely to do the job. So if you can get a smaller, lighter gun, with manageable recoil, without compromising capacity, but in a larger, more potent caliber... why not?
Double Naught Spy
Maby I stated it wrong when I said i cant seam to get her to the range its not due to her lack of willingness its due to unexpected circumstances arising at the time we planed to go shooting the last few times. She is more than willing to go witlling to go with me. My apoligies for the poor wording.
shafter
I agree self defence is not about comfort zones, however a person canot be expected to weild a weapon of any kind they are not comptant and willing to handle. That said I belive she can handle for example the Glock17 i carry but she is douptfull. Currently im looking for a inexpensive .380 (im not a wealthy man single income house) under the false pretence I want BUG and hoping she will just claim it after she hanldes it lol
Maby I stated it wrong when I said i cant seam to get her to the range its not due to her lack of willingness its due to unexpected circumstances arising at the time we planed to go shooting the last few times. She is more than willing to go witlling to go with me. My apoligies for the poor wording.
shafter
I agree self defence is not about comfort zones, however a person canot be expected to weild a weapon of any kind they are not comptant and willing to handle. That said I belive she can handle for example the Glock17 i carry but she is douptfull. Currently im looking for a inexpensive .380 (im not a wealthy man single income house) under the false pretence I want BUG and hoping she will just claim it after she hanldes it lol
DETH_LIVES
New member
A Beretta Bobcat 21 in my front pocket...Is better than no gun...And on a Hot Day in Florida it works....
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Given the deterrence statistics, if you had an unloaded gun (by whatever circumstance), you wouldn't try to deter an attack with it - as it might work.
Or you would not try at all and go hand to hand with the attacker as he or she might be one of the 5 to 10% not deterred?
This is becoming a nonrational argument again with folks NOT understanding risk analysis at all.
1. One should carry the gun that is most efficacious, that they can shoot well.
2. If the choice is not to carry at all - then carry the 22.
3. It gives so much added benefit, that the stopping power tirades are diagnostic of the irrational as compared to not carrying.
3. If a person only wants to carry a 22 vs. not carrying, a rational person would recommend they carry.
it is funny, I got the wife a 380 when she first started shooting with me.
After a while I aquired a few more guns so she has gotten a chance to compare recoil, calibers, etc..
Her favorite now is a full size 1911 in 45, but she keeps the 380 mostly because of problems racking the slide. Since it is a tip up barrel, she doesn't have to rack the slide to load it.
After a while I aquired a few more guns so she has gotten a chance to compare recoil, calibers, etc..
Her favorite now is a full size 1911 in 45, but she keeps the 380 mostly because of problems racking the slide. Since it is a tip up barrel, she doesn't have to rack the slide to load it.
Dont they make a 22 that sounds like a pump shotgun racking when you pull and aim it? 
If all a person wants is a 22 then let them have one. From the posts I have read not many have actually had to use any SD weapon so.......
I for one wouldnt want anyone shooting at me with a 22 or any other cal;iber for that matter.
If all a person wants is a 22 then let them have one. From the posts I have read not many have actually had to use any SD weapon so.......
I for one wouldnt want anyone shooting at me with a 22 or any other cal;iber for that matter.
Ah, gun people are so damn amusing....we'd debate the relative merits of "mm" vs. "caliber" until the cows came home!
Look, EVERYONE knows that the .22LR isn't the proper caliber for CCW - I don't care if you can shoot like Daniel Boone, the .22 doesn't have enough power. But, if the choice is my Bobcat or nothing, I'm taking the Bobcat.
(By the way, anyone who says "the .22 is just going to **** off the bad guy" wouldn't THINK of shooting themselves with that round...it would hurt like crazy! Plus, it might kill you!)
Look, EVERYONE knows that the .22LR isn't the proper caliber for CCW - I don't care if you can shoot like Daniel Boone, the .22 doesn't have enough power. But, if the choice is my Bobcat or nothing, I'm taking the Bobcat.
(By the way, anyone who says "the .22 is just going to **** off the bad guy" wouldn't THINK of shooting themselves with that round...it would hurt like crazy! Plus, it might kill you!)
Thank you Glen EM...
That's what I'm talking about. Anyone choosing to carry ANY gun at all has so many more benefits from the simple possession of a weapon in a confrontation. The people who speak in "What-if's" and preference polarities don't fully understand either sheer mathematics, or the psychology of a physical confrontation.
If you want to... carry a .22. Either .22, .38, .44, .50 or any other caliber makes little difference when you understand that you are still shooting a small, sharp, superheated metal missile at over 1,000 feet per second.
I wouldn't want to be shot with any of them. And even basic statistical analysis of an overwhelming number of confrontations shows that criminals do not either.
~LT
That's what I'm talking about. Anyone choosing to carry ANY gun at all has so many more benefits from the simple possession of a weapon in a confrontation. The people who speak in "What-if's" and preference polarities don't fully understand either sheer mathematics, or the psychology of a physical confrontation.
If you want to... carry a .22. Either .22, .38, .44, .50 or any other caliber makes little difference when you understand that you are still shooting a small, sharp, superheated metal missile at over 1,000 feet per second.
I wouldn't want to be shot with any of them. And even basic statistical analysis of an overwhelming number of confrontations shows that criminals do not either.
~LT
Carrying a gun for self defense is based off the what-if factor, what if I get mugged, what if my house gets broken into, what if the neighbors dog attacks my daughter. I must ask sir, how many physical confrontations have you been in. I have been in enough to know that nothing goes as planned. Again here is when what-if comes into play. What if he has a knife, what if he has a gun, what if his two buddies are going to attack me also, what if I get knocked down to the ground and cant reach my gun, the list is endless. So maybe you should brush up on your "mathematics and psychology" or whatever it is you think that we "what-if" people lack
.22 CCW
i sometimes carry a .22 as a back up. specificly a NAA pug with the first two chambers loaded with magnum shot shell cartrides and the rest with hornady ballistic tip magnums. My logic is that, should i need this gun im in a fight for my life thats not going well. two shots of bird shot to the face then the rest of the cylinder to the torso. and MAYBE that will buy me enough time to reload or rearm. also the shot shells work very well agianst rats and mice.
i sometimes carry a .22 as a back up. specificly a NAA pug with the first two chambers loaded with magnum shot shell cartrides and the rest with hornady ballistic tip magnums. My logic is that, should i need this gun im in a fight for my life thats not going well. two shots of bird shot to the face then the rest of the cylinder to the torso. and MAYBE that will buy me enough time to reload or rearm. also the shot shells work very well agianst rats and mice.
orionengnr
New member
Be careful...
Using the logic of a lot of people here, we are being led down the road to the inescapable conclusion that we would probably be okay with a water pistol painted flat black.
You all can do what you want, but I'm not going down that road with you...
Using the logic of a lot of people here, we are being led down the road to the inescapable conclusion that we would probably be okay with a water pistol painted flat black.
You all can do what you want, but I'm not going down that road with you...
This is actually a worthwhile topic that I find interesting. Sorry I can't remember what everyone else has said, so here's my opinion. I think that if a person will not carry anything other than a 22, then so be it but they better sleep with it, and eat with it, and have it become an extension of their soul....and then they better hope there will never be a reason to use it in SD.
I carry a P7. It's a little heavy as 9mm's go, but it shoots like a laser and it feels good in my hand. 9mm is the smallest caliber I would carry, but I don't feel under gunned with a reliable 9mm. If all I had was a 22 I'd carry it, but I know there would be a false sense of security with such a small round. The name of the game isn't to kill, but to incapacitate. Try telling a jury why you killed a bg with a shot to the eye. I'd rather try to convince a jury I fired to stop the threat, and did not make a killing shot to the brain....even if the bg died from multiple center mass trauma.
I carry a P7. It's a little heavy as 9mm's go, but it shoots like a laser and it feels good in my hand. 9mm is the smallest caliber I would carry, but I don't feel under gunned with a reliable 9mm. If all I had was a 22 I'd carry it, but I know there would be a false sense of security with such a small round. The name of the game isn't to kill, but to incapacitate. Try telling a jury why you killed a bg with a shot to the eye. I'd rather try to convince a jury I fired to stop the threat, and did not make a killing shot to the brain....even if the bg died from multiple center mass trauma.
A .22 may not be the best thing as a defensive weapon, but it's better than a pointy stick. And even though the holes they make are going to be small, small holes in bad guys still mess up their medical records.
I'm going to guess after a couple hits the bad guys are going to stop or at least reconsider who they're messing with.
I'm going to guess after a couple hits the bad guys are going to stop or at least reconsider who they're messing with.
- Status