22 for ccw

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.22 for conceal carry?

No way in my opinion. Will a .22 take someone out? Sure it will, if you have a perfect placement, your target is close, etc, etc. If a .22 is all you own, then its better than a stick, rock, etc. But we are talking about defending your life and/or your family here so why not go for a little more protection. Something that will definitely do a "better job" at ending the threat than what you suggest, (.22lr).

I would much prefer a .38 special or at the minimum, a .380 round for a self defense cartridge. More powder, bigger bullet, more ft lbs, more "stopping power" if you know what I mean, (plus regular .38 special does not have that much recoil and a snubbie size .38 is easy to carry).

Why risk carrying a .22 when you can carry a .38 and have much more punch when and if you ever have to defend yourself or family.
 
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When a .22 was what I had, it was great. Shot that gun nearly everyday at various targets and ranges, and hunted with it so there was (still is) a high degree of comfort and competence. Now that I have more guns to choose from, I do feel marginaly better with others. That old Buckmark still does night stand duty from time to time (as will the new one that will be here Friday :D).

I have a friend who likes to shoot .22's, knows her limitations, and wants nothing to with a CF handgun. I say go for it. Better to have a gun you like, will practice with and play with than one that sits till you need it.
 
"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - John Wayne


treg, just a side note about J.W. From what I understand he wasn't respected or liked by many of the actors of that time. The reason being most of those actors put their lives on hold to join the war effort, and some never returned home. They were patriotic. J.W. was considered by many a draft dodger with a 2-A classification. When that deferment was reclassified 1-A, Wayne's studio appealed and got his 2-A reinstated until after the war.

What adds insult to injury is Wayne played the quintessential war hero, which left many in Hollywood with a bitter taste in their mouth. Others believe his guilty conscience was one reason he became such a super patriot later. The fact remains that the man who came to symbolize American patriotism and pride had a chance to do more than just act the part, and he let it pass.
 
Reading through all of this makes me fall back on my old response to threads such as these.

I've already described what I carry.

Don't like it? Tough. It's my choice to make, my choice to live with, or my choice to die with.

Worry about yourself and not me, and you'll go much farther in life.
 
I would not be deterred by John Wayne if he rose from the dead and started to hassle me. :D

Folks still don't understand the idea of relative benefit and probability. They still focus on the branch with the giant zombie meth head attacker.

So, if all my big guns were stolen except for my SS Ruger Bearcat - I shouldn't carry it, till I replace the big boomers?

Some folks would benefit from more math and psychology.
 
Once Again... Thank you Glenn.

As per the Gentleman inquiring about my "what-if's" and preference polarities comments, I have been in enough scraps to know for myself as well. Those of us who carry weapons are not ignorant to the evils and threats of the very real world, and all of us came to that realization at one time or another in our own way.

My comment was that people who deal ONLY in these areas are rapidly sliding down a slippery slope to astronomical possibilities that few seem to realize. We all carry weapons because of the big "What-ifs", but what several of you do not seem so understand is that we can "What-if" each other until the cows come home. I've personally heard the one about the "Meth-ed out, Giant-Raging-Zombie-Assailant" more times than it takes to become literally laughable. Now it's just plain stupid.

What if you are mugged on the way home?
What if your gun snaggs on your shirt when you draw?
What if you draw your gun and it misfires?
What if then, your assailant tackles you and you can't retrieve your weapon?

What if after you subdue your attacker and retrieve your weapon, a disgruntled postal worker from 2 counties over lets loose a load from his Midieval Trebuchet and you are crushed under the weight of a wooden skid filled with depressingly aweful horror movies from the 80's?

So many of you get so carried away with your string of "What-if's" that you don't realize exactly how far you've travelled and how statistically insignificant or psychologically irrelevant your conclusions have become.

Yes, we all have to prepare for the uncertainties of the future. But at some point, you have to say enough is enough.

Carry a .22. Chances are astronomical that you will ever regret that decision for almost any of the reasons others have provided.

Listen to Glenn EM. He knows what he's talking about.

~LT
 
a water pistol painted flat black.
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Will this shoot a metal slug at a high rate of speed? If not, then I do not recommend using it for SD. Now if it was a water cannon...... or a spud gun...
 
That's a decision only you can make.

If you feel confident that your 22 will do the trick (and I'm sure it would in a lot of circumstances) then by all means carry it. And in ANY circumstance it would be better than being unarmed.

Personally, I prefer at least a 380, but that's just me.
 
"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - John Wayne


treg, just a side note about J.W. From what I understand he wasn't respected or liked by many of the actors of that time. The reason being most of those actors put their lives on hold to join the war effort, and some never returned home. They were patriotic. J.W. was considered by many a draft dodger with a 2-A classification. When that deferment was reclassified 1-A, Wayne's studio appealed and got his 2-A reinstated until after the war.

What adds insult to injury is Wayne played the quintessential war hero, which left many in Hollywood with a bitter taste in their mouth. Others believe his guilty conscience was one reason he became such a super patriot later. The fact remains that the man who came to symbolize American patriotism and pride had a chance to do more than just act the part, and he let it pass.
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What the HELL has that got to do with this thread :confused:
 
While I'm a Glock man, and 9mm on up man, I still find Jeff Cooper's thoughs on the .22 for defense as well worth it.

Say you have a Bersa in .22 (and they DO make that gun) and you find it shoots Wal-Mart Federal 550 pack HPs fine and shoots the sights look.

You burn up 300 rounds a week practice and can it an egg at 5 yards, from the leather, concealed, in about a second. Well that's an eye socket hit. Hint hint?

Again, while I pack a larger gun myself, that route, mastering a .22 pocket pistol, is not all that bad a way to go. And with ammo prices, it's tempting.

And BTW, a Ruger 10/22 can be done the same way. 25 yard eye socket hits with speed.

And one good thing about this way, if they have a bullet proof vest it will not matter.. cause you are aiming for the head, every shot.
 
Yep, commenting on a sig line about Marion Morrison is not appropriate to this thread.

Let's go back to the caliber wars. So would you fill your hands with a lever action 22 or throw rocks from horseback?

Glenn
 
The Walther P-22 is a fine choice. Practice with it, and learn how to fix any hangups the ammunition may cause. Be sure to use quality ammunition such as the Stingers, Minimags, or Velocitors. The best ammunition in .22lr is very affordable.

For a revolver I recommend a Taurus 941, it is a .22 magnum 8 shot revolver. They can be had in varying barrel lengths.
 
The Duke has nothing to do with the thread....

Don't be dissin my main man (Marion Michael Morrison), or better know as Mr. John Wayne. Sometimes called Duke by his friends (of which he had many).
Mr. Wayne had three kids is why he got his deferment when the war broke out. Originally he wanted to join up but was deferred by draft board.

Let's stick with the question of the original thread. My answer would still be a resounding NO for a .22 LR (as a self defense gun) Reason is: No matter how much you practice with your ..22 handgun and no matter how good you are with it, it is still only a .22bullet. Granted a perfect placement might do the job, but in the heat of the moment, are you sure you are going to make that perfect placement?? Even then, the perp may do damage to you in the meantime (before he expires)...
You gotta know down deep, that a person has to feel more confident if they are protected by at least a .380 or larger bullet such as a .38 special.
Think about it.....;)
 
I see this old topic is bubbling up to the surface again :)

Someone mentioned a Bersa (Firestorm) .22. I have one of those, and I carried it a few years ago when my SP-101 was back at the Ruger factory for 12 friggin' weeks.

Because I carry a gun, any gun, I go out of my way to avoid having to shoot someone. That means I pay attention to my surroundings, lock my car doors, trust my feelings, obey the laws, and avoid trouble. The gun isn't needed to do these things, but it serves as an obvious reminder. Going from .357 magnum to .22LR didn't change that for me at all.

If I were forced to present my .22 for some reason, 90% of the time doing so would deter the imminent crime, statistically speaking, and it wouldn't matter if I had a .357 instead.

As for the remaining 10% of defensive gun uses that actually involve firing a round or more, statistically speaking, I have serious reservations about using a .22LR versus something significantly more powerful and reliable (it goes without saying that a .22 is better than nothing).

Here are my reservations:
* Just because .22LR is cheap to shoot, that does not mean you or I can practice with it more. I think this idea is perpetuated as a general truth when, in reality, it may not pan out for many individuals. I live in a city, and I have to drive 25 miles one-way to shoot in an indoor range. Let's say I can get there only once a month because I work 12 hours a day and have 6 kids. That means I can shoot only once a month, because people who live in cities aren't allowed to practice in their yards. If time is a major consideration, my feeling is that people may as well spend it practicing with a major caliber (.38, 9mm, etc.).
* However, assuming you or I can practice a lot more with a .22, that does not necessarily mean we will shoot more accurately with it. People talk about making eye-socket shots with a .22 because center-of-mass shots with that caliber may not work. I will say this ~ I've fired more .22LR than all other handgun calibers combined, and if I had to make an eye-socket shot, I'd choose a GP-100, SP-101, LCR or one of my three 9mm semiautos over any .22 handgun I've ever fired. This incredible and effortless, proclaimed, accuracy of the .22 has eluded me. From my .22s, with all of the different ammo I've used over the years, I've never come close to the groups I've achieved with .38 special, .357 magnum, and 9mm.
* If I somehow miss the eye socket because, well, I may be under stress while being physically assaulted, I assume a 9mm would do better on a shin, cranium, torso, or shoulder than a .22 would.
* All of my .22 handguns are unreliable. I currently own a Firestorm .22, a Ruger MKII Target Competition model, and an H&R Sportsman breaktop. I also used to have a Ruger 22/45, and I rented a S&W 317 once. They all had misfires; too many misfires for a carry gun. I've had mis-feeds, stovepipes, failures to eject, and catastrophic failures where the case could not be ejected from the chamber. With .22s, you have to spend the money to find out which ammo works well in that particular gun. Once you've identified it, don't assume it will continue to work. My Firestorm hummed along great for thousands of rounds of Aguila hyper-velocity ammo, until it absolutely stopped working one day. I replaced the recoil spring and the mag springs, and then wasted about $100 worth of ammo before I discovered what works with it now ~ it's NOT what worked before.

.22s, I've learned, can be a colossal pain in the ass. My XDs, my Sig, and my LCR go bang, bang, bang all day long with no failures no matter how much of a reloading retard I can sometimes be.
 
* Just because .22LR is cheap to shoot, that does not mean you or I can practice with it more. I think this idea is perpetuated as a general truth when, in reality, it may not pan out for many individuals. I live in a city, and I have to drive 25 miles one-way to shoot in an indoor range. Let's say I can get there only once a month because I work 12 hours a day and have 6 kids. That means I can shoot only once a month, because people who live in cities aren't allowed to practice in their yards. If time is a major consideration, my feeling is that people may as well spend it practicing with a major caliber (.38, 9mm, etc.).
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Ichiro, but there are those who don't have to drive as far as you and can shoot far more (for me, have life membership to one indoor range, and membership to another outdoor range.) That is why no one pistol or cartridge choice is 'THE' choice. Different circumstances detail different solutions.


* However, assuming you or I can practice a lot more with a .22, that does not necessarily mean we will shoot more accurately with it. People talk about making eye-socket shots with a .22 because center-of-mass shots with that caliber may not work. I will say this ~ I've fired more .22LR than all other handgun calibers combined, and if I had to make an eye-socket shot, I'd choose a GP-100, SP-101, LCR or one of my three 9mm semiautos over any .22 handgun I've ever fired. This incredible and effortless, proclaimed, accuracy of the .22 has eluded me. From my .22s, with all of the different ammo I've used over the years, I've never come close to the groups I've achieved with .38 special, .357 magnum, and 9mm.
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Well it didn't elude Jeff Cooper, yes the Jeff Cooper. HE wrote about if you could not pack such as a 1911 .45, that maybe going to the .22 was the way. And he was not one for low powerered guns!


* If I somehow miss the eye socket because, well, I may be under stress while being physically assaulted, I assume a 9mm would do better on a shin, cranium, torso, or shoulder than a .22 would.
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Bad assumption. Although missing the head and hitting the shin sounds like alot more practice is needed, regardless of the round used.


* All of my .22 handguns are unreliable. I currently own a Firestorm .22, a Ruger MKII Target Competition model, and an H&R Sportsman breaktop. I also used to have a Ruger 22/45, and I rented a S&W 317 once. They all had misfires; too many misfires for a carry gun. I've had mis-feeds, stovepipes, failures to eject, and catastrophic failures where the case could not be ejected from the chamber. With .22s, you have to spend the money to find out which ammo works well in that particular gun. Once you've identified it, don't assume it will continue to work. My Firestorm hummed along great for thousands of rounds of Aguila hyper-velocity ammo, until it absolutely stopped working one day. I replaced the recoil spring and the mag springs, and then wasted about $100 worth of ammo before I discovered what works with it now ~ it's NOT what worked before.
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Well sorry to hear about that. But not everyone finds their .22s to be unreliable. My Smith 2214, Glock AACK .22 unit for the 26, and Smith 34 2 inch J frame .22 are all very reliable. My daughter, an accountant, has my Ruger MK II 4 inch stainless .22 as her gun. We've shot it for years with no problem (she didn't like any of my, uh, vast selection of 'powerful' carry guns so she preferred the .22 and could hit very well with it.)

We are not saying the .22 is 'THE' choice, but as long as you have a reliable .22, ammo like Remington 'golden' bullets at $15 per 550 rounds (yea, 15 bucks.. barely buy one 50 round box of 9mm now days), and the willingness to practice to be very good with it, well it's not all that bad a choice.
 
22lr is sufficient for most practical carry uses. I often take one when i walk the dogs. There is nothing wrong with that. Get over it.
 
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