22 for ccw

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I can think of a few situations where .22 l.r. could be a good choice for self defense against humans...
*If it is the only gun you have.
*If a physical disability or health problem prevents the use of a more potent caliber.
*If it is the only gun you can get to.
*Despite your best efforts it is the only round that you are any kind of accurate with at speed.

.22 Magnum would be a better choice from a wheelgun. .17 HMR better still. .32 Magnum better than both those. All are low recoil options.

.22 l.r. is a good round in it's sub sonic loads, for walking up to a fella and shooting him in the back of the head (a la the Mossad) it will quietly do that job.

Jeff Cooper and others have commented that the .22l.r. is likely a better choice than the .25 acp. But Cooper carried a .45 acp for self defense against humans and was famous for advocating that cartridge for self defense against humans.

The .22 l.r. from a handgun is rather like a 6" long icepick that is good out to 25 yards or so. Yep it can kill. And it can severely wound. But if I go to a knife fight the ice pick would not be my first choice.

tipoc
 
Jack O'Connor wrote one time of a GI in the ETO who shot his way out of several situations using a Colt Woodsman .22.

Now yes, I prefer 9mm or above, but a .22, with lots and lots of practice, can hold its own. The catch is you have to practice to be able to deliver fast surgical shots at any range.

Hey, and Glenn, if it was betwen a 11 shot Buckmark and a 1911 .45, sure I'd pick the .45... with 8 rounds!
 
22LR for CCW

I carried a Stinger for about 20yrs. I certainly would recommend something bigger than a 22LR. With the Stinger you needed to be close enough you could hear what's playing on his MP3 player. The American Derringer manufactured Pen Guns were better.
 
A lot of people talk about a .22lr like it's a bb gun. In my opinion these people don't know what they are talking about.

I live in a rural area and in my youth I have seen everything from large Chow's to Deer killed with a .22. As a matter of fact we have a problem with people spot lighting deer in my area and a .22 is one of the most common rifle's used for it.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a .22 will kill a deer what makes you think it wont kill a human? Is it as good as carrying a .45? No. But for the most part a person is more likely to keep a .22 on him at all times than a .45. I would rather have a underpowered pistol with me than a big shiny .45 sitting in my safe.

Guns aren't one size fits all. Find something you are comfortable with and keep it on you at all times.
 
.22 is too unreliable as far as ignition goes, centerfire only.
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I've heard that a lot on the Internet, but I've never had a quality .22LR misfire in any of my weapons.

In point of fact, I used to carry a Walther TPH in .22LR loaded with CCI Mini-Mags as my "always" gun. Back in the day, that was the smallest lightest carry piece available. I eventually replaced it with a Kel-Tec P-32 shortly after they came out, and have just replaced the K-T with a Ruger LCP.

The TPH now protects my daughter, who is recoil-shy and can't even shoot the P-32 effectively. She practices with it regularly, and IIWY, I wouldn't accost her in a dark alley.

As a matter of principle, you should always carry the heaviest caliber you can shoot well, and the largest weapon you can conceal effectively. However, I'd a lot rather defend myself with the .22 TPH, or even my NAA mini-revolver than a pocket knife! YMMV
 
You know about this ignition thing.

I picked up a AACK .22 unit for my Glock 26 about 2 months ago. Well I've put over 1000 rounds so far out of it. All Remington 'Golden' bullets in the 550 packs. NOT ONE MISFIRE OR JAM.

Pretty good accuracy to.

If you do pick a .22, shoot it alot till you are confident not only in your accuracy and gun handling skills, but in it's reliability.

My Smith 2214, 2 inch barrel is also very reliable. Looks like this:

2213_Right_side.jpg


And since I shoot alot, I would not feel all that handicapped if I used it for CCW (but I do have better ones I can shoot well and thus I carry the better ones!)
 
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a .22 will kill a deer what makes you think it wont kill a human?
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It's not about the ability of the .22 to kill, it's a question of whether the .22 can reliably stop a threat before the threat inflicts serious injury on the wielder. Poaching deer isn't even remotely the same as trying to stop an armed and determined aggressor who's intent on killing you. The fact that the other guy might ultimately expire from the wounds you inflicted isn't much consolation if you failed to stop him from killing you before he died.
 
I have never had a misfire on any .22lr ammo I have ever used with my Ruger Single-Six. I'm talking tens of thousands of rounds.

My Colt Target .22 on the other hand, is very finicky.
 
From a S&W M41, M17, 22/32 Kit gun, Browning Buckmark, Ruger Single Six, Ruger Bearcat, Ruger Mark 1,2 and 3 several of each, Colt Woodsman, All of which I own or have owned over the last 30 years the average rate of misfire per gun is about 6 rounds per 300 or so fired. I expect at least 1 misfire in 200 rounds. Gun does not matter. .22 rimfire ammo is less reliable than centerfire ammo this is a result of how the ammo is made. It has not changed much over the decades. Top grade match ammo is slightly better.

If you shoot 22 you know this.

No gun made in 22lr saves a fella size or weight over a more useful caliber for self defense.

Unless someone has no other options it is irresponsible to recommend .22 as a serious defensive carry round.

tipoc
 
22 LR

Tipoc, I have to disagree. You cite an ammo malfunction rate of 2%, and say that target grade ammo is only slightly better. Top level competitive shooters would not tolerate any ammo that resulted in a malfunction rate that high, as that could cost them a regional, state or national championship, and at the highest levels, a place on an Olympic team. When I was shooting competitively I did not experience a single ammunition-related failure with .22 LR.
 
Several folks have noted that a .22 lr pistol would be most effective and hence as good as larger calibers in the hands of an experienced, practiced shooter...putting a round into the eye socket as noted back on page 1.

Problem is...

... but i cant seam to get her to the range...
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The OP's wife isn't going to be the dynamic shooting range ninja she maybe ought to be in order to rely on a .22 lr pistol as a primary for self defense.

The notion of unreliable rimfire ignition has been brought up. This is a valid concern. A person familiar with stoppages would be able to clear such a round in short order in a semi-auto, but that would not appear to fit the OP's wife either.
 
It's ok to talk about the terminal effects of 22s. However, if the debate is to carry a 22 or not to carry anything - that is too simple.

1. Most DGUs are deterrent - so not carrying at all gives away about a 90% chance (from Kleck) of being successful in the interaction. So now we are taking about th 10% of cases as if they should determine the entire situation.
Duh.

2. If you do have to shoot, the correct statistic would be to know how many criminals continue the crime after taking a round - not whether they drop dead like a deer. If they take a 22 or 38 and scamper, away that's fine.

3. So let's say (and I don't believe this) that 90 % of BGs flee or cease after a .GE. 38 or 9mm round and only 50% cease after a 22. By not carrying a 22 at all, you give up a 50% chance of winning a shoot incident. Why give that up to be unarmed.

To conclude, if one wants to argue for a caliber that you can handle well and is more efficacious, that's fine. If the debate is not to carry a 22 at all, then that's very silly.
 
All I have to say is if you are going to carry a 22 make it a revolver and shoot High Velocity 40 grain solid bullets. 22's are rimfires and even the best of them have a few failures so a revolver will get you past the dud quicker and easier then a pistol will if you aren't an experienced pistol shooter.

Wasn't my first choice for a carry gun but it was the first HD gun I ever bought because it was what I could afford at the time. We lived in a bad neighborhood and the wife was alone, sometimes for weeks or months at a time while I was on duty in the Navy. Use what you got and upgrade when able to. In your wife's case, when she feels able to handle more than the 22. In the meantime buy bricks of your chosen brand and type and shoot, shoot, shoot.
 
I always thought it might be an interesting choice. But could not get over the 10 rd limitations.

Now I may rethink it, since that company put out the 30 rd 22 mag gun.
If it comes out in 22 lr. I would actually consider it as a primary carry gun.

That said, I carry a 45.
 
Not a good idea

after all the whole idea of a CCW is to use deadly persuasion or at least the threat of deadly persuasion by display under the appropriate circumstances.
I was a Hospital Corpsman with the US Navy undergoing Operating Room tech (Scrub Nurse) training at Portsmouth Naval Hospital in the 70es. It was a Friday night and I had the duty. At about 2200 hours a shooting victim was brought in with multiple gunshot wounds to the throax and abdominal cavity (6 rounds in all). The man was still conscious and talking. He had been shot at about 6 feet with a 38 caliber side arm. I was suprised that he was still able to breath let alone talk. I made up my mind right there and then that if I was ever to CCW my weapon of choice would be a 45 auto. A 22 just does not cut it, your intended target just might take the pistol away from you and shove it up your ass or shoot you with it after you have shot him or her a couple of times. A tap from a 45 and there is no doubt in my military mind that your intended target is going to be severaly disabled if not dead. Now having said that it is entirely possible that your intended target will still be able to disarm you after you have shot him or her with a 45 caliber bullet. It can take a few seconds to a few minutes for the blood pressure to fall in your target enough for him to go down. That's why you continue shooting until your target goes down and is no longer a threat. A 22 just does not cut it, if you can afford a 22 you can afford a weapon heavy enough to do the job.

Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester
 
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You cite an ammo malfunction rate of 2%, and say that target grade ammo is only slightly better. Top level competitive shooters would not tolerate any ammo that resulted in a malfunction rate that high, as that could cost them a regional, state or national championship, and at the highest levels, a place on an Olympic team. When I was shooting competitively I did not experience a single ammunition-related failure with .22 LR.
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The key part of the defense of the .22 l.r. as a first choice defensive round above is the fragment I highlighted.

Our endorsements for the .22 as a first choice for self defense mention "top level competitive shooters", agents of the Mossad, a trained and experienced combat soldier stuck without a rifle or issued sidearm in a last ditch effort defending hisself with a Colt Woodsman, etc. in each case competent and experienced handgunners. Most folks are not that.

The other argument is that a .22 will scare a fella away as easily as a service caliber. Maybe, but I will not advocate that folks rely on that. It is an argument for carrying an empty gun.

Another argument is made by unemployed book keepers: If there are 100 encounters, 50 where a person is armed with with a 22 and 50 with a .40S&W, what is the percentage of folks who are stopped after being shot with the .22 versus the .40S&W? What is the percentage of fellas who run away after being shot once? What the percentage who say "Are ya gonna think about imaginary statistics or are ya gonna shoot?".

If your sisters shot putting, jilted, sorry for hiss-self, ex boyfriend shows up drunk at the next 4th of July party armed with a baseball bat and commences to hit folks in the head with it and you pass up the .380 and the .357 and the 40S&W for a Buckmark, well, good luck with that. Be sure to ask the fella to stand still so you can get a good clean shot off at his eye socket or ear.

We are speaking of the round that you prefer to carry for self defense. Not the round that you might be stuck with cause you have nothing else left. Not the round for dark of night hit men. But the round that you consciously prefer to use and recommend to others for self defense. Folks will of course do what they like. But me, I do different.

tipoc
 
AndrewH said:
I always thought it might be an interesting choice. But could not get over the 10 rd limitations.

Now I may rethink it, since that company put out the 30 rd 22 mag gun.
If it comes out in 22 lr. I would actually consider it as a primary carry gun.

That said, I carry a 45.
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Kel-Tec PMR 30
 
I oftentimes ccw my Beretta Bobcat in my front pocket. I haven't been attacked since I started doing so.
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Were you attacked before you started carrying it? Just curious :)

As far as CCW and .22lr go... not my cup of tea, I prefer at least 6rds of at least something .380 or larger. That's what I feel is substantial for CCW.

Would I feel just as comfortable w/ a .22lr? Sure... but with the available options, why limit yourself to the smallest caliber?
 
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