Oh. Absolutely. I will also throw 357 under the bus. 9mm HST performs better than most 357 commercial loads without the horrible recoil. Even Luckygunner straight up says 357 is probably never worth the cost of recoil given performance differences of 357. As someone else brought up, there are 38 special loads doing better penetration and expansion than 357. For defense. As the topic states defense. But I also mentioned hunting too.
Recall, I mentioned a commercial Federal 9mm load is faster than almost all commercial 357. Federal 115gr +P+ is not really even an okay round by the standards of today.
In boutique loads from BB, UW, and DT, they are using inferior bullets but plunking faster fps behind them. Big deal. What you tend to see in tests of BB, UW, and DT is ACTUALLY less depth because of the increased FPS. When it isn't less depth, the expansion isn't as impressive as HST 9mm. Recall, I am saying and tests are showing HST is going slower with huge depth AND expansion. Old tech requires high FPS to get big expansion. High FPS in this old technology blooms the hollowpoint too large too fast. Less expansion.
Even XTP I mentioned as a hunting round? When you look at the results, the pedals are almost completely flat against the round when it goes TOO fast/deep. Why? It's because BB, UW, and DT are sending the bullet so fast the expansion hits past what is desired and it keeps going. So okay for hunting, bad for self defense. On Gold Dot? Jury is out if those bullets aren't also breaking up, but for sure they are flattening too fast.
Are there any 357 loads opening .7" and going 18" on average? nope.
HST 9mm does BETTER without high FPS.
That said, I love 357 in a revolver at the range.
But this is about 10mm. You are seeing people staying on topic of 10mm and pointing out 10mm isn't up to the internet hype for self defense.
Recall, no one is saying 10mm or 357 doesn't work. What I'm saying is the 9mm in the same shot will have the same results and have done a better job doing it. Data shows that is true. AND it is a smaller gun. AND it is less FPS. AND it is less recoil. AND it has more rounds. AND it is usually 25 bucks for 50 rounds.
The only thing it has going for it is higher FPS and weight. Those aren't showing up as advantages not matched in 9mm for self defense or hunting using modern hollow points.