10mm for self defense

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John’s point is generally Sound. And just because he is a moderator doesn’t mean he cannot have an opinion. You can disagree with him or debate it, that’s fine he won’t give you a demerit as long as you’re respectful and rational.

Baca went to the riot maybe not looking for trouble, but looking to be involved in some way. He rolled the dice and took a risk, and now he’s gonna sit in front of a jury for it. An expense I would rather not incur. Too easy to avoid by just not being there. In the case of truck driver Reginald Denny, I think that may not be an example I would use to argue that “you can avoid a riot in 99.999% of the time.” I believe John is wrong on that one. An out of town truck driver in 1992 before cell phones and minute by minute news coverage, the guy didn’t have a GPS he had a paper map. He followed his normal route and it is quite possible that, by the time he did realize there was serious trouble he should be concerned with, it was too late for him to turn a semi around. My first thought at seeing smoke on the horizon isn’t “I bet there’s a riot over there.” Reginald Denny May very well be illustrative of the point that there are some people, in some cases, who didn’t go looking for trouble but trouble found them. And they had no way of predicting it before hand. That being said, 99% of the time trouble can be easily avoided with just a little rational forethought.

EDIT: I see I got my facts partly wrong. Reginald Denny was not an out of town truck driver but I still stand by the reasoning that he may not have had information as to the specific location of any riots in 1992 pre smart phones and instant news access.
 
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The entries are starting to repeat without adding much to the discussion. Might be time to lock the thread. Not because anyone's dis/agreeing with JohnSKA, but sometimes, it's time to close a thread.
 
It's always a shame when threads get derailed this badly, but I've yet to see a thread devoted to a single cartridge which has gone on for more than a couple pages stay on topic without spinning off into either a caliber war or something completely unrelated.
 
What exactly does this mean? He is staff. It says so below his name and as far as I know the appearance of that word is automated by the forum system. He's not signing off his postings by saying "Staff".
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That's correct. A person doesn't get asked to be staff because they're always right. Being staff doesn't guarantee that person is always right.

On TFL, the content of a post is what's important, not who posts it.
It's always a shame when threads get derailed this badly, but I've yet to see a thread devoted to a single cartridge which has gone on for more than a couple pages stay on topic without spinning off into either a caliber war or something completely unrelated.
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It's the nature of the beast. Any discussion with lots of participants is very likely to wander to at least some extent. Although it obviously varies by point of view, sometimes the wanderings provide more useful and interesting information than the original topics.
 
seanc said:
The entries are starting to repeat without adding much to the discussion.
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Post #13 on page 1
I put a link with tests of 10mm showing loads that do not overpenetrate.

Subsequently somebody posts the blanket incorrect generalization that 10mm is overpenetrative for use against people.

I once again link the tests showing that 10mm is not overpenetrative. Post #171

I hypothesize that entries repeat because some people post without bothering to read the previous replies.

It would not surprise me to see another person post the incorrect generalization of 10mm having too much penetration for SD against people, despite that I've linked the tests twice and commented on it again here.
If the thread runs long enough watch it happen.
 
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