rickmelear
New member
As long as you shoot it well in a stressful, defensive situation it’s great.
You're trying to make an argument that energy in a handgun round is essentially a non-sequitur, a statistic that has no impact on the actual physics involved.But "energy dump"...you aren't talking rifle levels. So all the benefits of a "dump" really are just made up.
There isn't forced damage around because of the dump in a handgun level dump.
I totally get it stops the bullet over penetrating. Totally get that.
But what's the point of 10mm at that point?
Pretty much sums up the criteria for any given caliber/combination/use doesn't it?As long as you can handle the gun/cartridge well and select an appropriate bullet it is an excellent choice.
Oh yeah, my bad! I failed to acknowledge Glock’s as the solution for everything!Name a non-rimfire handgun ammo that's as cheap as 9mm. It's obvious that we'll be paying more for 10mm ammo than 9mm, but that's the case with quite literally every pistol ammo; it is what it is.
Honestly, the prices on 10mm, even if it's weaker, dowloaded stuff that's nowhere near max power is not much more than .40 or .45 is. The key is stay away from American made 10mm ammo, Federal especially. They charge $7 more a box and give us 125 fps less!
The Glock 20 and 29 won't be terribly difficult to conceal and whatever extra challenges there are in that regards, it's a worthy trade off for the increased power and better capacity than .45 ACP. OP could have a mag or two of standard JHP ammo for biped threats and a spare mag with max power 200 grain stuff for the big animals in the woods.
10mm is a very versatile caliber, I wish I had the foresight 5+ years ago to go with it over .40 S&W, but I didn't know back then I would get into reloading.
Oh, btw, .40 S&W shoots just fine in 10mm Glocks with no modifications.
Um, the 124gr +P HST outperformed the the 147gr +P HST. It achieved the same penetration depths and expansion diameter, but with a higher energy.Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I do still disagree though.
Also look at the luckygunner HST 147gr +P. Amazing. The 9mm HST outperforms many of the 10mm commercial loads for expansion AND penetration. Actually, all of them but two.
Underwood/BB load Speer uni-core bonded bullet, not current Gold Dot or Gold Dot G2. HST outperforms current Gold Dot loads from Vista for expansion and penetration. HST changed the game when it came out. Bigger expansion, deeper, less FPS.
You have to say that energy changed the outcome of being hit. An HST 9mm is going to kill in the right place. Period. The additional FPS of a 10mm isn't going to change anything. Ballistically, the 9mm HST got the bullet there bigger and deeper.
So yeah, the extra lbs umph does nothing for the 10mm performing better.
Kibitzing- seems to me “double taps” were invented because 9mm is “not enough”. I don’t hear about double taps with .45acp, 10mm etc. as thems with great recoil are also thems that lay down a big hole on the first place.
So the conventional wisdom now seems to be that one needs 12+ rounds of 9mm and that’s the herd’s wisdom. 38 special is “too weak” and 5 or 6 rounds is a major disadvantage and reloading is deemed impossible (although I’ve never had a revolver fail to feed, stovepipe or malfunction in any way so we don’t blame the shooter for limp wristing.)
I will get berated on these boards because my .380 is basically a pea shooter even though the bullet diameter is within a thousandth or two of an inch from 9mm and the only acceptable reason to carry a .22 is because one must be old and feeble. Carrying a .25 or .32... shhhhh... those guys.. we don’t talk about thems in front of the children.
We won’t mention that if you can shoot it, .40 really is better than 9mm because... we don’t like the CRACK!! and SNAP! Of a .40. The kids all think the BOOM and PUSH from a 1911 is just for Grandpa until they shoot a few targets, feel the glass break of the trigger, then mutter that it only has 7 rounds and complain about the cost of ammunition so they feel better. Gramps says “Lazy kids! When the Paco-lips comes, you’ll wish you knew how to reload! And get off my lawn!”
Guys with 10mm will argue for days about the best bullet for unsociable bears.
Guys with .454 Casull argue about the best bullet for Cape Buffalo.
Guys with S&W500 argue about when will they get their gun back from the factory and those with a .500 Linebaugh don’t need to talk, their grip panels cost more than my truck.
If you had your choice, you’d probably pick Seal Team Seven for home defense, lacking that you’d pick a long gun.
Everything is a compromise and everything hinges on your ability and needs.
10mm? I know some big men with good skill that can make 10mm hum like a sewing machine mated with Thor’s hammer. You would not want to go one-on-one with such a man with a 9mm.
We haven’t even talked about things like “Shoot through a car door? Heck, even my .45 Colt with hard cast makes a car door look like Swiss cheese”
Everything is a compromise. Let’s face it, my sister was a LEO for 5 years and never drew her weapon. Chances are you’ll never fire yours. In the great outdoors, 10mm is a respectable handgun for deer hunting and anything less I look on as someone in great need or someone that disrespects the animal.
After this long, hopefully amusing rant, you might say “Well Pete, what did you just buy? You’ve been looking for a 9mm” and then I say “Well..... errr.... I was looking and then this fella had a Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R magnum... and ...I had to have it. Buy ammunition? Haha haha! Funny! You can’t even get all the components for reloading in one place online!”
We don’t talk about .357 Magnum and .32 Fed Mag because they are revolver cartridges but are good enough to hunt deer with when we say “there is no replacement for proper shot placement”.
Since I got that Ruger in an even trade, I still have discretionary money for a 9mm some day... but a proper wood and steel revolver beat it out for my “gotta have its”.
Um, the 124gr +P HST outperformed the the 147gr +P HST. It achieved the same penetration depths and expansion diameter, but with a higher energy.
Any bullet will kill if put in the right place, but the point of self defense isn't killing, it's stopping. 10mm is a stopping round due to the higher velocity and energy.
Look, I get your a mega fanboy of the HST, but saying it's superior to 10mm because it penetrates deeper with less is beyond the pale. It takes more than a technologically advanced bullet design to make it a better ammo than 10mm and I'll give the HST and other bullet designs their due in that they've made 9mm a respectable defense caliber, but they don't make it better than 10mm in terms of defense capability.
10mm is closer to a .41mag than a .357mag.
Recoil and second shot must be considered. Double tapping a 10mm is difficult to control.
Yes, it's effective, but that's not the sole factor we're relying on to stop a threat. We want the threat stopped, if the aggressor dies, the aggressor dies. It's irrelevant in relation to threat being stopped.I could be wrong, but killing seems like a pretty effective way of stopping/incapacitating a threat. If we’re going to talk about going beyond the pale, let’s address this too.
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