Zogby: Bob Barr is Polling at 6%

You can vote for McCain or you can vote for Obama. If you vote for Barr you might as well stay home. I hate to say that but I can't ignore reality. In the past two elections the Dems lost primarily because of this same mess with third party cantidates. A vote for Barr or Paul will mean the same as not voting or posting on this board how wrong the government is about 2A.

If you prefer Obama to McCain then vote for Barr. If you don't care who wins then vote for Barr. If you possibly want to make a difference in who wins then vote for McCain. Obama if going to get the same number of votes no matter if you vote for McCain or Barr.
 
Look, we've all seen this thread in different incarnations over and over. The Libertarian argument that their candidate is the only REAL conservative/constitutionalist/pro-gun/patriot etc. candidate and if YOU don't realize that YOUR some form of ignorant or drunk on koolaid etc., etc.


What about taking ownership of your own parties offerings? What about insisting that YOUR party finally put up a viable candidate rather then another washed up Republican that can't get elected/re-elected.

These Libertarians are like a restaurant owner that only gets the same people eating the same thing over and over with no new customer base claiming that people don't know what good food is and that only his 10 customers that show up regularly know what real food is. Forget that others have stopped in, found the food bland and suspecting some unappealing ingredients.

Serve up a candidate that isn't found to be widely unappealing and bring to the table a VIABLE candidate. Take onus for the situation YOUR party is in and stop with the 'I'm right and 94% of others are stupid/unpatriotic/liberal blah blah blah.

Barr is another Republican wash up. He can't get re-elected in his OWN district for a REASON. Once a proud right wing Republican he is now 'above that'?.......no.......he just can't get elected so he'll 'find religion' and become a Libritarian......oh.......AFTER he failed as a Republican.

The Libertarians need to figure out why they can't get traction and rectify that. It's NOT that 94% of people are ignorant, it's that the offering is unsavory.

Two old adages that seem to have been missed by the leadership of the Libertarian Party:

-If the WHOLE WORLD stinks the problem is most likely your own top lip.

-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
 
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
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Exactly, like voting for Republicans instead of Libertarians, because the Libertarian 'can't win'. We Libertarians need to completely sever our ties to the Republican party and concentrate on strengthening our own. We tried for over 40 years joining forces with Republicans and have been marginalized and taken for granted in return. Lets leave the Republicans and put all our efforts behind or own party and ignore their fear-mongering and cajoling. Now that they need our votes in this close election, McCain is more than willing to throw us a rhetorical bone, but when the election is over he can go back to business as usual.

Once again you are correct Brux, doing the same thing over and over (i.e. supporting the GOP) and expecting a different result is crazy.
 
Exactly, like voting for Republicans instead of Libertarians, because the Libertarian 'can't win'. We Libertarians need to completely sever our ties to the Republican party and concentrate on strengthening our own.
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Libertarian candidates ARE Republicans that can't win as Republicans so they are now Libertarians that can't win.........

HELLO(knock knock) Bob Barr.........................
 
nate45,

Actually, the same thing you're doing over and over again is voting third party with the expectation that anyone will pay attention.
 
Libertarian candidates ARE Rebblicans that can't win as Republicans.

HELLO(knock knock) Bob Barr.........................
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Come in, I don't expect Barr to win, but you have to start somewhere. If he gets double digits and gives those unhappy with McCain and Obama a place to cast their ballots, that will be sufficient this election cycle.
 
It would be so nice to see Libertarians sever their ties to the Republican Party, because they've been nothing more than parasites and free-riders. While real conservatives have fought to make the GOP back into the Party of Reagan, the Libertarians have refused to do anything more than demand free drugs, a repeal of all laws against prostitution, and open borders. (Yes, the Libertarians want open borders. Think we have an "illegal" problem now?) All Libertarians do is show up at Republican events, tout their own ideals as opposed to working with anyone else, and wait for some washed-up GOPer to decide that his only hope for ever getting elected again is to pander to the fringe nutter base, ala Paul and Barr. But make no mistake--the Libertarians have never supported or "been part of" the GOP. No, they've just ridden on our coattails ever since it finally sunk in that, after almost 40 years as a "political party" (they've lost majority status in almost every state), American voters know who they are and what they stand for, and with the exception of a few naive college kids and disgruntled 40 year old fry cooks who still live with their parents, nobody wants any of that crap.
 
We Libertarians need to completely sever our ties to the Republican party and concentrate on strengthening our own.
Lets leave the Republicans and put all our efforts behind or own party and ignore their fear-mongering and cajoling.
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Go ahead and see how far it gets you. You still wont get anybody elected because you wont have any larger voter base than you already do. Like it or not the majority of the American people are going to vote republican or democrat (with the occasional ticked off cross overs) and they always will. The best you can possibly hope to do is split the republican party and insure that a dem always wins.
 
Actually, the same thing you're doing over and over again is voting third party with the expectation that anyone will pay attention.
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Actually I've voted Republican for President every election since 1984.

I and people like me placing our faith in Republicans or voting out of fear of what the other party might do, is one of the primary reasons for the poor showing of Libertarians.

If Barr gets double digits and McLame loses, then people will notice.
 
The best you can possibly hope to do is split the republican party and insure that a dem always wins.
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Now were half the Republicans, lol.

We will make convenient scapegoats, instead of the policies and actions of RHINOs like McCain.

Perhaps also when you guys were marginalizing us and calling us 'loons' or what not, you should have perhaps considered that you might need our votes.

It is time we voted our conscience no matter what the consequences.

.
 
Sufficient for what??

As for starting somewhere what about building a Party before shooting for the top spot. Run libertarians in local and State elections without the isolationist, pro-drug, white supremacy stigma of them. Establish all that as the 'old' Libertarian and build a Party from the ground up. You don't buy a pistol and sign up for the IPCC championship tomorrow.

The Libertarians have a LOT of losing to put behind them. Get some 'L's up first rather then tossing a hail Mary pass every 4 years.

Get ALL THE WAY past that restaurant owner's mentality above, it's VERY off putting. Try 'come join us' instead of the 'your an idiot for not joining us' approach.

I did like that Barr openly and flatly rejected the support of white supremacists. That had to really agitate them. I'll bet they took the 'so you don't want the support of white people' approach rather then 'we're so repugnant that our own party's candidate is revolted by us' message.

That statement made me look into Barr. He is unfortunately just another washed up Republican who's momentum from the 94' Republican takeover of Congress faded and he had nothing to add past that.
 
Now were half the Republicans, lol.
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Not hardly, not even close but you could throw a close race, and have. Personally I wish they'd disallow any third party candidates.
 
It is time we voted our conscience no matter what the consequences.
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Action without regard to consequences is reckless endangerment.

If YOU were the ONLY person who were to suffer those consequences then I'd say it's courage of conviction but given your NOT then it's reckless, immature, and irresponsible.
 
you could throw a close race
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I've said this over and over, why do Libertarians owe their votes to Republicans?

Personally I wish they'd disallow any third party candidates.
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There is a good solution, don't like what some one is saying or doing get them banned from the process.
 
If YOU were the ONLY person who were to suffer those consequences then I'd say it's courage of conviction but given your NOT then it's reckless, immature, and irresponsible.
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Ah now we get to the crux of the matter, we are going to put up a candidate who is anathema to your ideals and if you don't vote for him you're a bad irresponsible person.

Perhaps if Republicans had been responsible to their voters and stuck to the principles that got them elected to power they wouldn't be in the situation they are in now.
 
AGAIN Libertarians run worn out Republicans and wonder why people think they have Republican tendencies.

Your very poor interpretation that what I said about actions without regard to consequences meaning that if you don't vote for a like I will your irresponsible is telling.

Actions without regard to consequences is NOT irresponsible? You said it.

And you didn't answer my question when you said this:
Come in, I don't expect Barr to win, but you have to start somewhere. If he gets double digits and gives those unhappy with McCain and Obama a place to cast their ballots, that will be sufficient this election cycle.
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Again, sufficient for what? Sufficient for accomplishing what purpose? Your running a washed up Republican. WHY? He can't win as a Republican so what makes putting on the Libertarian label mean anything. He is a Republican no?
Maybe a 'blame me I voted for the OTHER Republican' would be a more fitting bumper sticker.....

Sufficient for what? More bland food from the restaurateur' so the customers can claim THEY are the only REAL censure's.

Us silly adults are voting for a President and your 'making a statement' by voting for a washed up Republican that found someone to take him seriously.

Here's another one for the Libetarians:
-LEAD, FOLLOW, or GET OUT OF THE WAY.

The Libertarian Party isn't going to come to promienece with wash-ups.
 
Personally I wish they'd disallow any third party candidates.
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Wow, just change "third" to "non" and you would have a good description of the former Soviet Union and modern China.

The Libertarians are far more intellectually pure than the hacks in the RNC or DNC. They are not going to win because most people are in fact sheep when it comes to politics, and those on a 2A website are no different. They only follow a different shepherd.

Not all libertarians agree on all subjects, immigration is a good example. Likewise not all Republicans agree on republican issues such as banning abortion... notice that one has gotten less mileage lately.

I will not be voting Libertarian or Democrat. Obama is just too vile a candidate to make a stand on principal regarding the faults of McCain.
 
Don't worry Brux if you like war, big government and an ever decreasing standard of living you'll still get all of that with Obama.

Sufficient for what?
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Sufficient to demonstrate that the Republican Party can't win without us.
 
Nate45 said:
Sufficient to demonstrate that the Republican Party can't win without us.
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So it is spite and not a moral high ground. (wink) Gotcha

And who is this 'us'? There are FAR more Conservatives then Libertarians and conservatism and the Republican Party are virtually synonymous, so who pray tell is this 'us' that so longs for a voice in the Republican Party (but wonders why people assume they should then vote Republican) and doesn't have one.

The only difference I see in the Libertarian Party (correct me please if I'm wrong) is the wish for legalized drugs, isolationist world perspective, and a more then subtle support from those that feel the white race needs more pride. Folks with any or all of the views like those would find that they have little voice in the Republican Party. So far the Republican Party has won the Presidency 7 out of the last 10 cycles without these people.

Surly you don't believe that the President is the only member of his party. Even Democrats with Conservative leanings get elected. In fact that is HOW they get elected outside of liberal districts. Even Obama is moving right.
 
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