Zero Tolerance Strikes Again - 6 y.o. Victim Suspended
- Thread starter TheBluesMan
- Start date
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
I'm as serious as I can possibly be, Pax! I'm surprised that the school didn't demand that SWAT show up 
. Only bright spot was that it gave us a good (if disgusted) laugh 
.
. Only bright spot was that it gave us a good (if disgusted) laugh .BerettaCougar
New member
That's sad Capt.
Called the cops for that? Can a dispatcher reject a call like that?
Seriously, can the dispatcher tell the caller to get a life and call back when theres an EMERGENCY?
Called the cops for that? Can a dispatcher reject a call like that?
Seriously, can the dispatcher tell the caller to get a life and call back when theres an EMERGENCY?
Hey Josh,
You only say what you say because it doesn't affect you. If you or one of your family members had a butter knife planted on them as a prank or by an ignorant 4 year-old child, I guess you would feel that you or your family member deserved to get suspended or expelled, right?
Common sense has left the building.
You only say what you say because it doesn't affect you. If you or one of your family members had a butter knife planted on them as a prank or by an ignorant 4 year-old child, I guess you would feel that you or your family member deserved to get suspended or expelled, right?
Common sense has left the building.
Ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem or personal attack (Latin, literally "argument to the man"), is a logical fallacy that involves replying to an argument or assertion by addressing the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself. It includes:
* ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam)
* ad hominem circumstantial (also called ad hominem circumstantiae)
* ad hominem tu quoque (also called you too argument)
As arguments of logical fallacy go, the ad hominem attack probably leads the pack in abusive debate methods. It is most often seen when the debater cannot effectively counter the argument of another.
While you may not like what thatguyjosh said, heck you may not like thatguyjosh because he said it, let's keep it civil. Attack the message, not the messenger.
* ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam)
* ad hominem circumstantial (also called ad hominem circumstantiae)
* ad hominem tu quoque (also called you too argument)
As arguments of logical fallacy go, the ad hominem attack probably leads the pack in abusive debate methods. It is most often seen when the debater cannot effectively counter the argument of another.
While you may not like what thatguyjosh said, heck you may not like thatguyjosh because he said it, let's keep it civil. Attack the message, not the messenger.
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Lets say a kid went on a picnic with his family. They used his backpack to carry some of the supplies, including plastic knives. If this kid accidentally missed one of these plastic knives when cleaning out his bookbag and it was found in school, should he be treated just like a kid who brought a 7" fixed blade hunting knife to school to show off to his friends? (A knife is a knife according to zero tolerance rules).
How about a kid who goes target shooting and hunting often, but before a shooting session, a live round rolled onto the floor of the truck and he didn't notice. If he parks his truck in the school lot the next day and this round is seen by one of the teachers, should he get the same punishment as the "gangsta wannabe" who carries around his dad's loaded gun in his pocket at school and gets caught?
Not everything is black and white. There needs to be some grey area in there somewhere, and zero tolerance doesn't allow for any grey area. Some things are certainly obvious mistakes.
How about a kid who goes target shooting and hunting often, but before a shooting session, a live round rolled onto the floor of the truck and he didn't notice. If he parks his truck in the school lot the next day and this round is seen by one of the teachers, should he get the same punishment as the "gangsta wannabe" who carries around his dad's loaded gun in his pocket at school and gets caught?
Not everything is black and white. There needs to be some grey area in there somewhere, and zero tolerance doesn't allow for any grey area. Some things are certainly obvious mistakes.
+1 on Antipitas's post.
From what I see, Josh is presenting the arguement that:
A) Weapons should be prohibited on school grounds, and
B) Complete zero-tolerance should be excercised in the enforcement of these prohibitations.
Counterpoint A- Since when has the prohibition of weapons ever stopped a school shooting? Why would someone who is determined to kill be stopped by a sign saying "no guns allowed"? Statutes like these only disarm the victims, and protect nobody but the criminal, who now has easier work.
Counterpoint B- It is injustice to punish a person for a mistake. That is the whole reason why there are two different sentances for 1st degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. In this case, the six year old was suspended for something his sibling did. By my book, that is wrong. Miscarriages of justice are supposed to be corrected, not approved.
Also, since when is a butter'knife' even a knife? I don't know about the rest of you, but my idea of a butterknife is little different from a thin spatula.
From what I see, Josh is presenting the arguement that:
A) Weapons should be prohibited on school grounds, and
B) Complete zero-tolerance should be excercised in the enforcement of these prohibitations.
Counterpoint A- Since when has the prohibition of weapons ever stopped a school shooting? Why would someone who is determined to kill be stopped by a sign saying "no guns allowed"? Statutes like these only disarm the victims, and protect nobody but the criminal, who now has easier work.
Counterpoint B- It is injustice to punish a person for a mistake. That is the whole reason why there are two different sentances for 1st degree murder and involuntary manslaughter. In this case, the six year old was suspended for something his sibling did. By my book, that is wrong. Miscarriages of justice are supposed to be corrected, not approved.
Also, since when is a butter'knife' even a knife? I don't know about the rest of you, but my idea of a butterknife is little different from a thin spatula.
If you bring a gun or knife to school you should be suspended as state. But in this case it was a butter knife. A better knife can't cut anything. Go to your kitchen grab a butter knife and try to cut your finger off. You would probably have more luck using a shoe string.
Ive been stabbed with pencils when I was in school. I find them and pens a bigger threat.
Ive been stabbed with pencils when I was in school. I find them and pens a bigger threat.
I apologize for my post then. Wasn't attacking Josh, just trying to show him that his logic would demand that he also, should be in jail or suspended for breaking a law, any law.
And I did put a behind my last remark, It was a joke (you know, Kool-Aid drinkers (used on both sides).
Wayne
And I did put a
behind my last remark, It was a joke (you know, Kool-Aid drinkers (used on both sides).Wayne
shootinstudent
New member
This kind of ridiculous "educational" action to me is a failure on every level. We need to can school boards that support these kinds of administrators, and also the administrators themselves who are so stuck in the school-marm mindset that they aren't capable of recognizing which decisions will and will not appear insane to the rest of us.
Here's an idea: How about school officials get to know the kids, so that they can judge which kids are dangerous with what items, and learn to watch the at-risk or risky-to-other kids more closely, instead of trying to stick to a program that requires zero intelligence to administer?
Here's an idea: How about school officials get to know the kids, so that they can judge which kids are dangerous with what items, and learn to watch the at-risk or risky-to-other kids more closely, instead of trying to stick to a program that requires zero intelligence to administer?
"Here's an idea: How about school officials get to know the kids, so that they can judge which kids are dangerous with what items, and learn to watch the at-risk or risky-to-other kids more closely, instead of trying to stick to a program that requires zero intelligence to administer?"
O.K., this is just a response to the above quote and certainly not an ad hominem attack. Having done a fairly decent job of raising four children and thereby having dealt with school administrators and school teachers over a span of many years, my observation is that the kind of people who become school administrators and school teachers aren't the kind of people who like to make decisions...particularly decisions with serious consequences.
It's a pity, but my previous post in this thread really does say it all: "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."
There is, of course, the Elephant in the Room, about which we don't dare talk, and which subject is not p.c. and is, in fact, practically taboo. Were it not for that Elephant in the Room, rules concerning bringing weapons to school wouldn't be necessary.
O.K., this is just a response to the above quote and certainly not an ad hominem attack. Having done a fairly decent job of raising four children and thereby having dealt with school administrators and school teachers over a span of many years, my observation is that the kind of people who become school administrators and school teachers aren't the kind of people who like to make decisions...particularly decisions with serious consequences.
It's a pity, but my previous post in this thread really does say it all: "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."
There is, of course, the Elephant in the Room, about which we don't dare talk, and which subject is not p.c. and is, in fact, practically taboo. Were it not for that Elephant in the Room, rules concerning bringing weapons to school wouldn't be necessary.
shootinstudent
New member
Zekewolf, I do agree. That's part of the problem as I see it. Don't feel attacked even one bit.
well i think zero tolerance is the best...but
like any law it should be open to reasonable interpretation based on case history etc.
A butter knife? Somebody should have done the in between. Not suspended the kid but talked directly to his parents about the knife. That way your following the zero tolerance to a degree but still allowing some leeway for common sense.
like any law it should be open to reasonable interpretation based on case history etc.
A butter knife? Somebody should have done the in between. Not suspended the kid but talked directly to his parents about the knife. That way your following the zero tolerance to a degree but still allowing some leeway for common sense.
First off, sending a child home for a butter knife is ludicrous. A no-decision policy gets you the same thing as computers do. One guy gets a $4,998,543.09 light bill another guy gets his son sent home with a butter knife.
I can't remember when I didn't carry a knife at school. It never left my pocket except to clean my fingernails, sharpen a pencil, etc. Never anything violent. I never would have considered it a weapon. I had a friend who went shooting often with his dad and would occasionally have a gun in his car in the parking lot. I've talked to people out West a little older than me who took guns into high school, and locked them in a coat room to take them hunting after class. No one ever gave it a second thought.
Problem isn't the instrument, it's the kids we're raising nowadays.
I can't remember when I didn't carry a knife at school. It never left my pocket except to clean my fingernails, sharpen a pencil, etc. Never anything violent. I never would have considered it a weapon. I had a friend who went shooting often with his dad and would occasionally have a gun in his car in the parking lot. I've talked to people out West a little older than me who took guns into high school, and locked them in a coat room to take them hunting after class. No one ever gave it a second thought.
Problem isn't the instrument, it's the kids we're raising nowadays.
ROFLMAO
Too true though
. I have just completed renovation and additions to three large elementary schools, which caused me to spend an awful lot of time in the schools dealing with herds of teachers. And (here comes a rather large generalization) I found them to be mostly un-intelligent about the simplest of concepts. It scared me to see what level of people are "educating" our children. Scary stuff guys. 