Zero Tolerance Strikes Again - 6 y.o. Victim Suspended
- Thread starter TheBluesMan
- Start date
thatguyjosh
New member
I already responded to this a few posts above yours.
thatguyjosh
New member
14 and 14.
thatguyjosh
New member
I was giving examples of the violence I saw while I was in school. Unfortunately, kids don't just fight with their fists anymore.
Unfortunately individual freedom has been on the decline for so long that a lot of people accept it as correct policy.
As a group we are steadily becoming more accepting of the mentality of treating people in a collective way, instead of as individuals. When someone (note the one in that word) abuses something, then the knee jerk reaction is to ban the thing that was abused; so that everyone is "punished" collectively.
For instance, if you are in a classroom and one kid is chewing gum in an obnoxious way, the teacher bans chewing gum in the classroom. Now everyone in the classroom has been punished (and continues to be punished every day) by the actions of one individual. I know this is an extremely simple example, but it gets to the point quickly.
There have been instances of students bringing knives to school for purposes that no one can approve of, and using them. Then what does our society consider the right thing to do? Punish every single student evey single day by taking away their ability to bring a kinfe to school for good puposes.
The zero tolerance policy is just that - punishment on a collective basis which punishes 99.9999% of the group for something they did not do.
What is even worse than this? That it is not only deemed acceptable by the majority of the punished collective group, but the majority of the punished collective group applauds the removal of their individual freedom ~ thatguyjosh for instance.
Each generation removed from the beginning of this Country becomes less and less apalled at the loss of individual freedom, and more and more accepting of collective restrictions.
Thatguyjosh, in this thread has taken on the persona of the latest generation to accept the collective restrictions as being good and moral - and many others on this thread are disturbed by his attitude. His attitude is far more the norm these days than not.
Imagine how it will be in say 100 years from now?
As a group we are steadily becoming more accepting of the mentality of treating people in a collective way, instead of as individuals. When someone (note the one in that word) abuses something, then the knee jerk reaction is to ban the thing that was abused; so that everyone is "punished" collectively.
For instance, if you are in a classroom and one kid is chewing gum in an obnoxious way, the teacher bans chewing gum in the classroom. Now everyone in the classroom has been punished (and continues to be punished every day) by the actions of one individual. I know this is an extremely simple example, but it gets to the point quickly.
There have been instances of students bringing knives to school for purposes that no one can approve of, and using them. Then what does our society consider the right thing to do? Punish every single student evey single day by taking away their ability to bring a kinfe to school for good puposes.
The zero tolerance policy is just that - punishment on a collective basis which punishes 99.9999% of the group for something they did not do.
What is even worse than this? That it is not only deemed acceptable by the majority of the punished collective group, but the majority of the punished collective group applauds the removal of their individual freedom ~ thatguyjosh for instance.
Each generation removed from the beginning of this Country becomes less and less apalled at the loss of individual freedom, and more and more accepting of collective restrictions.
Thatguyjosh, in this thread has taken on the persona of the latest generation to accept the collective restrictions as being good and moral - and many others on this thread are disturbed by his attitude. His attitude is far more the norm these days than not.
Imagine how it will be in say 100 years from now?
I know those were examples of violence in your weapons-free shool.
You didn't answer my question. Your school obviously scrutinized weapons more closely than mine. Given two stabbings (that you saw), and someone beaten with a baseball bat, and a kid run over with a car, how do you figure the zero tolerance weapons policy was an effective at reducing violence?
butch50, you've hit the nail squarely on the head.
thatguyjosh has not addressed the ZT policy being made mandatory in a school system, such as the one where I live. It is nothing more than a solution looking for a problem. A solution that has been implemented hoping the problem would surface (which it hasn't)?
thatguyjosh has not addressed the ZT policy being made mandatory in a school system, such as the one where I live. It is nothing more than a solution looking for a problem. A solution that has been implemented hoping the problem would surface (which it hasn't)?
The root cause is apathy among the voting population. That and utter stupidity and PC spooge-for-brains educational and journalistic elitists.
Seriously, you have to be vocal to your newspaper and television editorial people. And you have to be rational and not rant to them.
Like cockroaches, these types of policies scatter when the light of editorial policy calls them on this crap. The schools do not care what you as an individual think about their policies. The police departments do not care that you might like the hundreds of police on duty each day to prevent crime instead of collecting revenue from traffic enforcement. You are not on anyone's agenda until you take back your local editorial venues and let society speak as one. Then you can mobilize the electorate to put these people OUT.
Until then, this IS our reality.
Seriously, you have to be vocal to your newspaper and television editorial people. And you have to be rational and not rant to them.
Like cockroaches, these types of policies scatter when the light of editorial policy calls them on this crap. The schools do not care what you as an individual think about their policies. The police departments do not care that you might like the hundreds of police on duty each day to prevent crime instead of collecting revenue from traffic enforcement. You are not on anyone's agenda until you take back your local editorial venues and let society speak as one. Then you can mobilize the electorate to put these people OUT.
Until then, this IS our reality.
thatguyjosh
New member
Because without the policy there may have been 3 stabbings, or maybe 30 stabbings.
Well, that can't have been an answer to my question. No one could possibly believe that having 2 stabbings from 1906 to 1996 (when the policy went into effect) that between 1996 and 2005 there could have been 1 to 28 more stabbings prevented.
To assume such is absolute absurdity.
Come on, thatguyjosh, give me a credible reason why such a policy should have been implemented in our schools.
Oh come on. The reason is abundantly clear and evident.
Because before they implemented the absurd zero tolerance policy, they had an even stupider policy that returned violent students to the classroom to prey on other students and teachers alike.
When they had the opportunity to apply reason to the situation, they failed. So they took the ability to reason out of the process.
Edit: The above does not neccessarily apply to this school or this situation. Bit school boards and civil governments being populated by The People with such stellar thinkers, this is what you get. And you tend to get it in broad swaths of the country all at once because people are lazy and will copy a policy that appears on its face to be a good idea.
Because before they implemented the absurd zero tolerance policy, they had an even stupider policy that returned violent students to the classroom to prey on other students and teachers alike.
When they had the opportunity to apply reason to the situation, they failed. So they took the ability to reason out of the process.
Edit: The above does not neccessarily apply to this school or this situation. Bit school boards and civil governments being populated by The People with such stellar thinkers, this is what you get. And you tend to get it in broad swaths of the country all at once because people are lazy and will copy a policy that appears on its face to be a good idea.
another okie
New member
The weapons policy is not a local policy. Federal law requires a lengthy suspension for anyone with a weapon, (the rest of that school year and all the following year) and a slightly shorter one for any student with a disability caught with a weapon. To be clear, the law only applies to schools receiving federal funds, but since almost all do, it's essentially a federal policy for all schools.
While administrators and teachers often deserve whatever opprobrium we heap upon them, in this case the fault lies with us and our elected representatives.
While administrators and teachers often deserve whatever opprobrium we heap upon them, in this case the fault lies with us and our elected representatives.
Pff, Cali. Waddya expect? Most Cali public schools are overrun by gang members and druggies so of course their crime rate is a lot higher. If people just roll over and accept it in the future this country will become an oligarchy instead of a representive democracy. Anyone that even bothers to mention individual rights will then disappear into "correction facilities".
You bring a knife to school you will be suspended. You stab someone you will go to jail. IME, when someone wants to injure or kill another, lesser laws than aggravated assault or murder tend to be disregarded, also. Do you really think there were 1 to 28 kids at your school who decided not to stab someone only for fear of being suspended for bringing the knife?