Zero Tolerance Strikes Again - 6 y.o. Victim Suspended

I'm glad you are smart and didn't pull a knife on someone. But plenty of children do, all the time. Just because you are intelligent enough to fight with your fists doesn't mean other kids are.
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Josh, you didn't read my entire post.

I'm talking up to a thousand kids, 5yo to 18yo's all at the same school with the majority of them carrying knives (yes, even the younger ones but usually when they got their first uncle henry or buck for their 10th birthday as was tradition in the South).

And the kids that were old enough to drive to school (16 and up) had rifles in their trucks during hunting season, while parked on school property.

It wasn't just me.

And this was a span of 5 years.

A knife is a knife.
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What about those plastic knives that they give to use in the school lunch room? Are those "knives" or just pieces of plastic in the form of a knife?

What about the scupules(sp) they use in biology class? Those things are razor sharp and the students use them in class. Should everyone that takes biology get suspended because they have to use them to do their assignments?

I mean, a knife is a knife right?

Wayne
 
Gee, I guess using your logic my entire art class will have to be suspended because we are required to carry an exacto knife with us to class. After all, an exacto knife is way more dangerous than a blunt butter knife.

Or more so, why are pencils pointed? We should all go back to using charcol blocks because pencils can be used to stab people and there is a lot of pencil stabbings in high school.
 
Tyme- about the xacto knives...we used them also in art, and drawing/metal work.

at school in Shop class we used drills, welding equipment etc.

drawing we used drills, saws, etc...nothing ever happened...we used them without supervision 90% of the time... :eek:

Chad
 
If someone decided giving up our guns might save just 1 person, would you give up your XD?

No but i'm not a 3rd grader, I'm a mature adult who understand the consequences of using a gun or knife on someone.
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Just as there are 6 year olds who could not be trusted with a butter knife, there are adults who cannot be trusted with firearms. You obviously support a policy of banning butter knives among six year olds (if it could save just 1 person), wouldn't you also support a ban on firearms among adults (if it could save just 1 person)?

Please note the "if it would save one life" argument you used earlier is a ommon line among the Brady and MMM crowd.
 
Not to put this discussion off topic, but does anyone remember the thread in which we discussed public schools, liberal staff and the effect it has on our kids?

On this thread, we have living proof that nonsensical policies put in place by liberal administators have a detrimental effect on our kids. Look at the vast rift between the views of those of us out of shool twenty years ago and those of kids in school during recent years. Little by little they're brainwashing our kids into believing weapons bans are practical and reasonable.

Not meant as an ad hominem attack on Josh, of course. :)

Twenty or thirty years ago it seemed reasonable for a kid to have a pocketknife at school. Or a hunting rifle in a truck in the parking lot. Today, taking nail clippers away from a non-threatening 8th grader would make it seem perfectly reasonable to him to confiscate nail clippers from, for example, his grandmother entering an airport. Or to suspend a non-threatening 6 y.o. from school with a butter knife.

Does anyone but me wonder what this country will look like in another 2 or 3 generations? :eek: I see British or Australian style gun and knife bans.
 
thatguyjosh said:
A knife is a knife.
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Really? You'd better read what tyme wrote. Because virtually anything may be a knife.
The kid (and parents) knew it was against the law to let their kid go onto school property with a knife. He did and he should be suspended for it.
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There is no such LAW. It is merely a regulation made by the local School Board. I would almost bet (having read many of these regs) that it doesn't define a knife or that a knife is defined in such a manner that some fool can call anything a knife.

Which makes any such regulation, subjective.
I'd like to see you try and board a plane with a knfie [sic] and then tell the FBI you left it in there by mistake, good luck.
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I haven't flown since the early '70s when they first installed metal detectors and told me I couldn't bring my handgun.

Why would I bother to fly nowadays, when the rules and regulations are far worse, and in many cases, such rules and regulations are secret (national security is cited). Meaning that ordinary folks like us can't even read them to know if we are breaking them or not. We have to rely upon some idjut to tell us what's permitted and what's not.

Josh, in my area, we have 4 high schools, 6 Jr. or middle schools and 12 elementary schools. They serve an estimated 44,000 people in a 3328 sq. miles area (Minidoka and Cassia Counties, Idaho). In 100 years of operation, there have been no shootings and only 2 stabbings.

Can you explain why we need such Zero Tolerance policies? (and yes, we do have them) These policies were enacted as part of the bargained contract with the Teachers Union (NEA), and there's nothing ordinary citizens (who oppose the regs) can do to get rid of them.

These are stupid, nonsensical, counterproductive and wholly arbitrary rules enforced at the national level by the NEA.
 
I'd like to see you try and board a plane with a knfie [sic] and then tell the FBI you left it in there by mistake, good luck.
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The last flight I took still allowed knives on board (1995 or 96), by commercial means that is (your big airlines).

The first flight that I took afterward was private. Guns, no problem, knives, no problem, cost, much more but it was worth it. Flight from Oregon to Alaska (and dangit, next time I am going to fly just to see Wild and Spiffy, they are worth going to see).

I just made a flight to Atlanta GA (private). $436 on a commercial flight, $1100 on a private flight. I don't have to mess with TSA. The pilot asks, "do you have guns" and your reply is, "Yes, one on the right side, a couple of others in the onboard pack that I'm carrying".. and all you get is, "well, glad we're not the only ones armed".

And I'm not rich (or Rich :D), it took me 1.5 years to save up for this flight. Yet to me, it's more than worth it without having to be groped, wand (well, you know the f word that people use), or having to worry about getting jail time for having nail clippers on my person.

All in all, this is the reason that our tax money goes to the airlines so they can stay afloat, too much government BS and the People are just getting tired of being treated like animals when they spend good money for a service.

Wayne

/rant is in order here.
 
Interesting information here..

* In 1998, students were about two times as likely to be victims of serious violent crime away from school as at school

* Between 1995 and 1999, the percentage of students who reported being victims of crime at school decreased from 10 percent to 8 percent

* Ninety percent of public schools reported no violent crime incidents in 1996-97.

* Forty-three percent of these reported no crimes of any kind

* Forty-seven percent of these reported at least one nonviolent crime, but no violent crimes.

* The most prevalent type of youth crime is theft, and the most common types of violence are fist fights, bullying and shoving matches.

* Overall, about 1,000 crimes per 100,000 students were reported in public schools, 950 of which were not serious or violent.

* The ratio of serious violent crime is lowest in elementary schools, with 13 violent crimes reported per 100,000 students compared with 93 per 100,000 students in middle schools and 103 per 100,000 students in high schools.

* Schools that reported serious discipline problems were more likely to have experienced one or more incidents of crime or violence, and were more likely to experience serious violent crime than those with less serious discipline problems.

* The rate of serious crimes is fairly small when compared to the number of students-approximately 54 million-in public schools.


So contrary to what these zero tolerance supporters think... our schools are not gang banging, drive by shootings and stabbing infested

So why all the regulation?

http://www.osba.org/hotopics/atrisk/bullying/stats.htm
 
B.C.,

Because they want to make a non-problem into a problem.

You will see this in allot of politics, there is not problem, there is no need for a solution, but they will create a solution to a non-problem.

I know, it baffles me also. But that is what you face in today's age. Pols are just looking to make a name, or to act if they are solving a problem, even if it is a non-problem. Basically, trying to show us peons that they are earning their enormous paychecks so we don't bitch or whine about their enormous paychecks.

(I may very well get myself banned with my next comments)

It's all a great "peter pulling contest" (tried to keep it family). It matters not what is good for the country or what is fair for the civilians of, but how many times you can pull on your "peter" and achieve that satisfying result. Men AND women included.

All politics comes down to is who can pull their "peter" better.

Wayne

*side note, I really, really don't wish to get banned.... I just didn't know how to put in any differently.
 
On this thread, we have living proof that nonsensical policies put in place by liberal administators have a detrimental effect on our kids. Look at the vast rift between the views of those of us out of shool twenty years ago and those of kids in school during recent years. Little by little they're brainwashing our kids into believing weapons bans are practical and reasonable.
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It's not brainwashing, it is reality. I saw a kid almost get beat to death with a bat my freshman year in HS, I saw 2 stabbings, a kid get chased down by the cops for bringing a gun to school and a kid get ran over with a car in the parking lot after a fight he was involved in. Maybe you went to school 20 years ago and your school was safe but there's plenty of schools that aren't nowadays.

And about a knife is a knife, and about the school having plastic knifes in the cafeteria. Well, the school knows about those knifes and provided them. If you BRING A KNIFE OR GUN TO SCHOOL YOU NEED TO BE DISCIPLINED!

I think this topic has been beaten to death enough.. :)
 
Josh, with all due respect...

Since the school supplies the knife, it is safe?
-So should the government distribute our knives for home use?

I graduated HS in 2001, the school I went to had a few problems, a few gangs.

And was the most dangerous school in the county.
And hey guess what Josh, in my science class, we used knives to cut open baby pigs...

Sooo, let's see, a knife if distributed by the school is ok, but a knife... BUTTERknife brought to school on ACCIDENT, is a punishable act?

Get a clue man, you're going in circles.
 
It's not brainwashing, it is reality. I saw a kid almost get beat to death with a bat my freshman year in HS...
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Reality? Been there. I had a friend killed with a golf club in a dispute over a cassette tape when I was a freshman in high school. More recent example, a friend of mine has family working in a school in Fort Lauderdale. They had a student who beat a teacher unconscious. He then stapled the teacher's eyes shut.

They still haven't introduced a policy banning staplers. Have they banned baseball bats from your school? They haven't banned golf clubs from mine.

We have a problem with children performing violent acts. Should these children be jailed, sent to juvenile hall, treated for psychological problems, sent to a boot camp type school? I'm not sure which, but I'd like to point out students exhibiting aberrant behavior should not be among the school's general population. Would you contend that these violent children be allowed to proliferate in our schools, as long as all the other students are disarmed of butter knives and nail clippers?

Again, as I posted earlier, you are using the logic of the antigunners. A few kids cannot be trusted with butter knives, none should be trusted with butter knives. A few adults cannot be trusted with guns, none should be trusted with guns.

You are attacking the inanimate instrument, and ignoring the criminal mind.
 
I think I mentioned in this topic(or another) that violence is inherent in human behavior. Its how its handled is the problem, not with the items in which they use.

If I wanted to, I could have used the chairs in class to beat people who pissed me off instead of using a blunt butter knife. Or what about glass bottles? They sell plenty of Snapples in the cafeteria and those are found in glass containers and their pretty darn hard. They can be thrown or have an edge broken off and then you have a sharp "knife". By the off chance all guns and knives are banned and no longer found in existence, people will find other items to use. And this will go on and on until there is nothing left and its a void.
 
Right, Josh. They're focusing on the instrument, not the violent behavior. And you seem pretty cool with it. You have a right to your opinion. But what are you going to do when the gov't follows that logic and applies it to your gun?
 
"Right, Josh. They're focusing on the instrument, not the violent behavior. And you seem pretty cool with it. You have a right to your opinion. But what are you going to do when the gov't follows that logic and applies it to your gun?"


And it would be much easier for them to apply this incorrect way of thinking to guns than baseball bats, with the antis and their off-the-wall statistics backing them. It's a scary thought, really.

Those same people who can be convinced (or trained to believe) that a baseball bat should be banned from school property because it "could" be used in a violent situation would easily fall for banning guns.
 
This is absurd! A butter knife? I have 3 boys and you wouldn't believe what ends up in my work bag or boots from time to time. My two year old loves hiding things and when my wife tells him that's daddy's he complys and puts it in my backpack I use for work. An item such as a camera ending up in my bag is a big no-no where I work and it happened but I caught it so I'm not in suspended. :D Each violation should be analized and considered, but what I see here is someone not taking the time to see what is going on, maybe the person making the decision is too busy with other things with a higher priority and settled for a quick judgement. Are we that busy that it makes us stone cold blind?... Sad in a highly civilized world little incidents such as this can turn into a huge controversy.

The anti gun wing lost logic once they sat in power. What is the reasoning for a government official denying law abiding citizens their right to carry guns when the same bone head making it illegal has a CCW permit. Oh I need to be a government official to have the same rights? Wow! and I thought the US is a free country. josh
 
-thatguyjosh

I have to ask, do you understand the difference between a butter knife and say, a machete or a carving knife?
 
thatguyjosh said:
And about a knife is a knife, and about the school having plastic knifes in the cafeteria. Well, the school knows about those knifes and provided them.
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I'm sure schools keep careful inventory of plastic utensils.
If you BRING A KNIFE OR GUN TO SCHOOL YOU NEED TO BE DISCIPLINED!
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Yes! Punish the innocent! Neglect the guilty!
 
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