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- Thread starter DasBoot
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It certainly does when he's recommending that all the costs for illegal immigration be charged to a single country.Illegal immigration is illegal country or nationally or race hasn't anything to do with it.
Rangefinder
New member
The larger picture here is that we are an English-speaking country, and have always been. Just like German is the national language of Germany, French in France, Russian in Russia, etc. When I'm in a country, I make every effort to speak the language--partly out of interest towards the individual cultures, primarily out of respect to the place and people I'm visiting. So I get more than a little upset at people who come here and insist I learn their language in MY country in order to make things easier for them. I get even more upset at places that will cater to such absurdities to the point that I can't even go to some places and find a countable number of people working there who can speak even broken english--right here locally. I dare anyone to go to Russia and see how well you are welcomed and how easy you manage without learning even a little of the Russian language. Most of these countries even require English to be taught in school because English has become the language of international commerce. But unless there is a large business deal on the line or similar circumstances, they don't generally appreciate or cater to visitors who won't make an effort learn the language necessary to function within their own country.And if I lived in the area I would write Chevron and ask to have them put back. I like reading in Spanish.
Some might consider it drastic, but my opinion is that anyone seeking even temporary residency through legal channels should be required to pass an English examination. But that's just me, and the point goes a little off topic.
kennybs plbg
New member
My point is, if each of us does just a little bit, it could help turn the tide.
Sitting back and either doing nothing, or ridiculing the efforts of others only strengthens the opposition.
I never ridiculed anyone post, it's the overall mind set. Take for example the post that follows yours.
So what about the illegals from Nicaragua, El Salvador, Colombia, Ecuador, Brazil, Bermuda, Costa Rica, Peru, Canada, Russia, France, Germany, et al? Just because someone speaks Spanish does not mean he's Mexican
Everyone is talking about Illegal immigration in general and it's being generalized as an attack on Mexicans.
No one suffers the effects of this more then Hispanic Americans themselves. This issue is not an Us against Them issue, it's the American Citizens against Them issue. Until all Americans unite as a people regardless of race etc. we're doomed. We allow people to divide us using fear, race and political correctness.
kenny b
It certainly does when he's recommending that all the costs for illegal immigration be charged to a single country.
Fair enough, what percentage are from "that" country? or cross fron "that" country? We will only charge that percent. Is that fairer? and when "that " country is the one the border that openly promotes illegal immigration, it kinda throws a different light on the subject huh?
.We allow people to divide us using fear, race and political correctness
I agree +1 on that
Who has demanded that you learn another language? No one. Why should a private business not be allowed to cater to those that don't speak english? If you don't like it, you don't shop there. If I want to open a store and only care about hispanic customers that's my right and I'll post every sign in Spanish. Don't like it, don't come in my store.The larger picture here is that we are an English-speaking country, and have always been. Just like German is the national language of Germany, French in France, Russian in Russia, etc. When I'm in a country, I make every effort to speak the language--partly out of interest towards the individual cultures, primarily out of respect to the place and people I'm visiting. So I get more than a little upset at people who come here and insist I learn their language in MY country in order to make things easier for them. I get even more upset at places that will cater to such absurdities to the point that I can't even go to some places and find a countable number of people working there who can speak even broken english--right here locally. I dare anyone to go to Russia and see how well you are welcomed and how easy you manage without learning even a little of the Russian language. Most of these countries even require English to be taught in school because English has become the language of international commerce. But unless there is a large business deal on the line or similar circumstances, they don't generally appreciate or cater to visitors who won't make an effort learn the language necessary to function within their own country.
Some might consider it drastic, but my opinion is that anyone seeking even temporary residency through legal channels should be required to pass an English examination. But that's just me, and the point goes a little off topic.
Yeah, that would be significantly more fair but do you really expect a detained illegal to tell us he's from Nicaragua as opposed to Mexico?Fair enough, what percentage are from "that" country? or cross fron "that" country? We will only charge that percent. Is that fairer? and when "that " country is the one the border that openly promotes illegal immigration, it kinda throws a different light on the subject huh?
kennybs plbg
New member
Yeah, that would be significantly more fair but do you really expect a detained illegal to tell us he's from Nicaragua as opposed to Mexico?
Is there a difference where he's from? Illegal is Illegal, No?
kenny b
Who has demanded that you learn another language? No one. Why should a private business not be allowed to cater to those that don't speak English? If you don't like it, you don't shop there. If I want to open a store and only care about Hispanic customers that's my right and I'll post every sign in Spanish. Don't like it, don't come in my store.
Simple to say but in real life it becomes far more complected that that. Do we want to end up like Canada and every thing you buy has English on one side and French on the other? OK now what about all the other nationalities that come to America? Is their native tongue to be on everything too? I agree if you want to put another language on your store front fine, but lets include English too. there was small city in Orange Co Cal. that had a very large influx of Vietnamese in the 70's they even changed the name to Little Saigon. It got out of control and some one maybe the county I am not sure had to finally do something about it. Is this what we want in America, towns or areas where no one except this group or that, that lives there can communicate? Nope not good.
Yeah, that would be significantly more fair but do you really expect a detained illegal to tell us he's from Nicaragua as opposed to Mexico?
Well, did he fly in or did he cross the Mexican border? Shouldn't they bare some of the responsibility?
Redworm, Lets not argue here do you have any suggestions to help this immigration situation? If so please inform us all.
If I want to open a store and only care about hispanic customers that's my right and I'll post every sign in Spanish. Don't like it, don't come in my store.
If you are talking about the business world only, you are right on.
However, when the government must go to the expense of printing ballots in 7 different languages, and road signs in half-a-dozen languages, then something is very wrong.
When discussing charging the fees to the country of origin, yes.Is there a difference where he's from? Illegal is Illegal, No?
kenny b
I don't care if everything I buy has english on one side and french on the other. If there are enough french people in the country that businesses feel it's beneficial for them to print everything twice, fine.Simple to say but in real life it becomes far more complected that that. Do we want to end up like Canada and every thing you buy has English on one side and French on the other? OK now what about all the other nationalities that come to America? Is their native tongue to be on everything too? I agree if you want to put another language on your store front fine, but lets include English too. there was small city in Orange Co Cal. that had a very large influx of Vietnamese in the 70's they even changed the name to Little Saigon. It got out of control and some one maybe the county I am not sure had to finally do something about it. Is this what we want in America, towns or areas where no one except this group or that, that lives there can communicate? Nope not good.
There is no government legislation forcing adults to learn spanish. None whatsoever. Yes, children in school are required to learn a foreign language and damn well should be. No child should graduate high school without the ability to communicate with someone that doesn't speak english. Anything less is detrimental to our status as the world's most advanced nation.
No, if I don't want english type in my store then I won't put it there. There's no reason I should if I don't care about catering to people that only speak english.
No more than a gun owner should bear the responsibility of someone steals his gun because it was laying on the coffee table and commits a homicide with it. Not that Mexico is the victim but the nation should not be punished for someone else's crime. If a Canadian illegally crosses into Mexico should the United States be held responsible?Well, did he fly in or did he cross the Mexican border? Shouldn't they bare some of the responsibility?
Streamline the immigration process so that it's more appealing to come here legally than illegally. There should be no more requirements for entering the country beyond a clean background check and clear blood panel. Unless a man is a known criminal or terrorist or unless he has an infectious disease then he should be allowed to come here, work, send money back home.Redworm, Lets not argue here do you have any suggestions to help this immigration situation? If so please inform us all.
We need to encourage immigration because our nation thrives on it. The only people we don't want are the ones that are coming here solely to victimize others or the ones that would spread diseases. That's a very small fraction of the total number that end up here. That small fraction would become the only groups that our border agents would have to deal with instead of trying to sift through thousands of families to find the real criminals.
I don't mind deploying troops to the border as long as they're there solely to detain people. I don't want some trigger happy grunt shooting at families but I don't want them defenseless against smugglers, either.
There are other possible solutions I've posed that I've mentioned before, this is just what came off the top of my head.
If you are talking about the business world only, you are right on.
However, when the government must go to the expense of printing ballots in 7 different languages, and road signs in half-a-dozen languages, then something is very wrong.
I agree but where has the government done this? I have never, not once, seen a road sign in any other language but english. Most road signs are pictographs anyways so it doesn't matter what language they're in but still, I've never seen a non-english one. I've never seen a non-english voting ballot though I do believe in making english the official language for government documents. I don't mind if the government prints documents in other languages except for one thing: citizenship test. That should be in english, no two ways about it. Everything else is fair game.
I agree but where has the government done this?
California driving test:
Besides English, the basic Class C written driver license exam is also available in the following languages:
Amharic, Arabic, Armenian, Cambodian, Chinese, Croatian, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Hmong, Hungarian, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Persian/Farsi, Polish, Portuguese, Punjabi, Romanian, Russian, Samoan, Spanish, Tagalog/Filipino, Thai, Tongan, Turkish, and Vietnamese.
That's the driving test for one state. California has the right to print its driving tests in whatever language it pleases just like Texas has the right to restrict it to english only.California driving test:
Besides English, the basic Class C written driver license exam is also available in the following languages:
Amharic, Arabic, Armenian, Cambodian, Chinese, Croatian, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Hmong, Hungarian, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Persian/Farsi, Polish, Portuguese, Punjabi, Romanian, Russian, Samoan, Spanish, Tagalog/Filipino, Thai, Tongan, Turkish, and Vietnamese.
While I do feel that one should have an understanding of the english language before being allowed to drive one does not need to be proficient in the language to know the rules of the road because they're all available in various languages. Speaking fluent english does not make one a better driver. I don't mind if an immigrant is allowed to take a test in his native language if that will be a better indication of whether or not he understood the material.
Again, the one exception should be the citizenship test. But states are allowed to handle their licenses their own way.
oldbillthundercheif
Moderator
California driving test:
Besides English, the basic Class C written driver license exam is also available in the following languages:
Amharic, Arabic, Armenian, Cambodian, Chinese, Croatian, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Hmong, Hungarian, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Persian/Farsi, Polish, Portuguese, Punjabi, Romanian, Russian, Samoan, Spanish, Tagalog/Filipino, Thai, Tongan, Turkish, and Vietnamese.
Good. New immigrants may need to get a driver's license very quickly upon arriving in this country. They may not have had time to learn english well enough to deal with standardized tests. Why is this a bad thing?
Voter Services in California
http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_multi.htm
Multilingual Voter Services
In addition to providing materials and services in English, we also provide services to voters who require assistance in Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Spanish, Tagalog, and Vietnamese.
http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_multi.htm
Still don't see much of a problem with that. While the citizenship test is usually in english currently the only exceptions are 15 years or two decades of residency in the country - plenty of time to learn enough of the language to interact with the community - or a mental disability that precludes learning a new language.Voter Services in California
Quote:
Multilingual Voter Services
In addition to providing materials and services in English, we also provide services to voters who require assistance in Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Spanish, Tagalog, and Vietnamese.
http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_multi.htm
If a Korean immigrant becomes a citizen but feels more comfortable voting in Korean, let him. Any citizen, regardless of native tounge, has as much right to vote as any natural born citizen.
Good. New immigrants may need to get a driver's license very quickly upon arriving in this country. They may not have had time to learn english well enough to deal with standardized tests. Why is this a bad thing?
If a Korean immigrant becomes a citizen but feels more comfortable voting in Korean, let him. Any citizen, regardless of native tounge, has as much right to vote as any natural born citizen.
Today 01:27 PM
As long as it's your tax dollars and not mine its fine or even better if you want the test in another language you pay the extra cost..On 2nd thought . this is America we speak English go learn or go without. Hows the guy gonna get around on the LA freeway if he can't read English? If you can't read English how are you gonna pass your citizens test? so vote English also. get real guys
I think instead of finding solutions we have been successfully guided in another direction..
Off to pc land we go where emotion rules and common since plays no part. It was the best thread on immigration I have seen here oh well.
Doesn't work that way. We all chip in to pay for things we don't all agree with. I don't like my tax dollars being used to invade sovereign nations but it happens. I don't like my tax dollars taking care of retirees but it happens. I don't like my tax dollars being used to arrest potheads but it happens. Some people don't like their tax dollars funding the space program but it happens.As long as it's your tax dollars and not mine its fine or even better if you want the test in another language you pay the extra cost..
I think instead of finding solutions we have been successfully headed in another direction.. Off to pc land we go where emotion rules and common since plays no part. It was the best thread on immigration I have seen here oh well.
I've already offered some solutions. I don't know if they're prefect but I think they're far better than the ideas of rounding people up, having to fork over ID without probable cause, building a stupid wall (at taxpayer expense, LOL), or shooting people that cross illegally.
I don't know if they're prefect but I think they're far better than the ideas of rounding people up, having to fork over ID without probable cause, building a stupid wall (at taxpayer expense, LOL), or shooting people that cross illegally.
What part of "illegal" don't you understand?
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