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"Your arrested driving without a license right? No papers or citizenship no drivers license, your under arrest, sounds good to me."

You've made a huge leap from being cited for driving without a license to driving without "citizenship papers". I'm not willing to go that far.

Anyway, you don't need to be a citizen to get a driver's license. (So far, you *do* have to be here legally, though.) Also, proof of citizenship is not a substitute for a driver's license.

Tim
 
Give all LEOs the authority to arrest/detain anyone not able to show some proof of citizenship.
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For those that think that is a radical idea, just north of me in Charlotte (Mecklenburg Co.) they have such a provision. I believe they are (for now) one of the very few police forces doing this. They trained with ICE and have an agreement to deport illegals they arrest. I know the sheriff in Phoenix AZ is also making arrests of illegals. It works. So far no big problems here...just fewer illegals.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1074359/
 
Anyway, you don't need to be a citizen to get a driver's license. (So far, you *do* have to be here legally, though.)
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No, maybe not but you should.
Proof of citizenship or proof that your legal, or no drivers license. If here as a migrant worker or with a 6 month visa, the drivers license should ONLY be valid for the amount of time your here legal.
 
"Proof of citizenship or proof that your legal, or no drivers license."

Isn't that what I just said?

Tim
 
You've made a huge leap from being cited for driving without a license to driving without "citizenship papers". I'm not willing to go that far.
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I must have misunderstood you Tim.
If you need the proof/papers to get the license then the license kinda says your legal. Right?
 
"If you need the proof/papers to get the license then the license kinda says your legal. Right?"

Fair enough, but I would keep the license/citizenship issues separate, and would not require people to carry proof of citizenship (Papers, please.)

Tim
 
license/citizenship issues separate, and would not require people to carry proof of citizenship (Papers, please.)
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We as citizens are required to have a valid Id on our person, a drivers license does the trick.
Why shouldn't anyone else not be required to carry so called "papers"?
Valid ID or papers, sounds good to me. Without those papers your deported.

Real simple for a simple guy like me. Lets see ya get into a Sporting or any event without your ticket. Your ID is your ticket to be in this country. No ticket, ya can't see the event.
Gosh even a small child can see that.
 
We as citizens are required to have a valid Id on our person, a drivers license does the trick.
Why shouldn't anyone else not be required to carry so called "papers"?
Valid ID or papers, sounds good to me. Without those papers your deported.

Real simple for a simple guy like me. Lets see ya get into a Sporting or any event without your ticket. Your ID is your ticket to be in this country. No ticket, ya can't see the event.
Gosh even a small child can see that.
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Unless I am driving, I do NOT need to carry my Drivers License or ID around with me.

This poses interesting ramifications which aren't being followed. In order to properly maintain countrywide ID, we need to either issue new ID to all citizens or tie in all state DMV's to a central system. In either case, we are necessarily putting together a national database.

Why is this a bad thing? Well, the whole problem with a central database is that people want to put things in there! Guess who has access to this database? Every single cop, every single legislator, every single person that can justify needing access to any part that gets integrated.

Currently, this info is in different databases.. SSN, Credit, FBI file... which by its nature provides some level of security (if you ignore the 3000 FBI NSL violations since 2003 ;) )

I am wary of a national ID card. I am wary of needing to carry it with me at all times or risk deportation (to where?! ok, at least arrest). I am wary of centralizing too much information.
 
SecDef

Unless I am driving, I do NOT need to carry my Drivers License or ID around with me.
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I believe that the USSC has ruled that one must identify oneself if asked to do so by law enforcement.

Oh, yeah. And just try boarding a commercial airplane without that picture ID.
 
I have no idea your state laws but here you need to carry a valid Id on your person.
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I've never been to a state that requires that. What happens when I travel cross country?

Can you tell me which state you are in that requires you to carry ID? Feel free to PM me if you wish to retain anonymity.

TX, CA, NV, IL, AZ all don't require it . . . .
 
I believe that the USSC has ruled that one must identify oneself if asked to do so by law enforcement.

Oh, yeah. And just try boarding a commercial airplane without that picture ID.
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Oh, absolutely.. there is a requirement to identify yourself. Lying about that is illegal. However, I don't need to carry ID unless I am doing something that requires it (driving, airplane, buying beer, etc)
 
SecDef

In most states, I believe in all 50 states since the Patriot Act, a person can be held if they fail to produce proper ID when requested by a law official. They have the right to take you into custody and hold you until your ID can be confirmed if you fail to produce it and they choose to do so. The law may no say "you have to carry it" but it is pretty clear about what can happen if you do not.
 
Maybe it's my sense of human decency, or maybe I'm a hippie sympathizer, but would you really, really turn down an illegal alien if he stumbled into a hospital, after getting hit by a drunk driver?
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I doubt anyone would do that. I am all for universal healthcare. The scare tactics people/big business use to try and convince people it is a bad idea just don't hold water. Most of the civilized nations have social healthcare to one degree or another.

The biggest problem is not from people with emergencies or trauma. My brother-n-law is an ER doctor and he will attest that 80%-90% of the cases he sees each day are non-emergency. They are cases of people who do not have insurance using the ER as their primary care. People going to the ER for colds, sore throats, pulled muscles, and other non-emergency situations. They use the ER because they know they will not be refused and, in most cases, will not have to pay. This is particularly true of illegals.
 
The Supreme Court Decision you are trying to reference is Hiibel V. Nevada. In this case the Supreme Court ruled that if your State laws required you to ID yourself to Law Enforcement, then you must. By extension, if your State requires you to have some form of State mandated ID on your person, then it must be produced upon demand by Law Enforcement.

No State law? No need to produce or ID yourself.

The Patriot Act does not require a physical ID. Only that you must state who you are to Federal Authorities. Has nothing to do with State level authorities.

Then there is the Real ID Act, which is mandated by the Feds to require the States have the same uniform ID (not in appearance, only in how the data is collected, verified and shared) in order to fly or access federal buildings or benefits.
 
Unless I am driving, I do NOT need to carry my Drivers License or ID around with me.
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Aha, but in the same regard--if you drive, you are required to have your license on you. Is it really such a stretch to carry it all the time? How about ccw permit holders? How serious to we take that? Everyone always have their ccw card on them when they carry? How about even when you aren't carrying? For me, the wallet goes in the pocket as soon as the pants go on. Everything I need is right there, all the time. There it stays--it's kind of a non-issue. When I'm overseas, about the only place I don't carry some proof of ID is in the shower. It really isn't that difficult--unless you really don't WANT people to be able to know who you are (aka illegals).
 
Aha, but in the same regard--if you drive, you are required to have your license on you. Is it really such a stretch to carry it all the time? How about ccw permit holders? How serious to we take that? Everyone always have their ccw card on them when they carry? How about even when you aren't carrying? For me, the wallet goes in the pocket as soon as the pants go on. Everything I need is right there, all the time. There it stays--it's kind of a non-issue. When I'm overseas, about the only place I don't carry some proof of ID is in the shower. It really isn't that difficult--unless you really don't WANT people to be able to know who you are (aka illegals).
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Driving and CCW are clear cases where your ID needs to be with you.

I understand that it isn't hard to carry ID. I happen to live in a free society, and don't HAVE to carry it around, though.

Let me clarify: I also don't allow police to search my car at a routine traffic stop. If he has cause to search it, he wouldn't ask me. Giving someone the ability to stop me on the street and demand ID is another chain used to oppress. If I am breaking the law (or suspected of it) then ask for my ID. That's a different issue.
 
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I understand that it isn't hard to carry ID. I happen to live in a free society, and don't HAVE to carry it around, though.
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Understandable, and I'm not arguing that. But my point is that if it could/would dramatically increase the chances of identifying those who were here illegally, is it too big of a request for legal citizens/residents to carry and be able to provide proof of legal status in the form of their ID?
 
Understandable, and I'm not arguing that. But my point is that if it could/would dramatically increase the chances of identifying those who were here illegally, is it too big of a request for legal citizens/residents to carry and be able to provide proof of legal status in the form of their ID?
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My take is that you provide ID when doing something that requires it. walking round town is not one of those situations.. see my edit above, too.
 
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