Why the hypocrisy on handgun capacity?

I am glad to see the manufacturers putting out new products with different designs. Keep innovating. Keep making the products better and better. Its cool to watch. 20 yrs ago my options for pocket carry were really limited. Now I've got 20+ different options. Its great!

As far as what you really need. No one knows. Do you need 1 round or 50 rounds, IDK. I can come up with scenarios all day long for each of those situations. Most of us will never even need a gun.

Personally, I am trained in BJJ/Muay Thai, I am in great shape, and I pay attention to my surroundings. I live in a nice neighborhood and don't go to bad neighborhoods. All of those things help but your risk is never zero.

For CCW, I carry a SW Bodyguard because it fits in my pocket. I love it. 6+1. Do I wish it had 15 rounds? Yep but as of right now the 365/Hellcats don't fit in my pocket so its just not convenient for me. But I welcome innovation and better designs. Would love to see a 10 rounder thats the size of the bodyguard.
 
If I need more rounds, I'll just carry a spare mag.
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You won't know that you need them until you do.

Carrying an extra magazine is a good idea. I have found, however, that the skill necessary fo replace a magazine extremely quickly without glancing at the gun is not something that I can gain.
 
For CCW, I carry a SW Bodyguard because it fits in my pocket. I love it. 6+1. Do I wish it had 15 rounds? Yep but as of right now the 365/Hellcats don't fit in my pocket so its just not convenient for me. But I welcome innovation and better designs. Would love to see a 10 rounder thats the size of the bodyguard.
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Or get bigger pockets and you can justify more guns ;)
 
OldMarksman said:
I have found, however, that the skill necessary fo replace a magazine extremely quickly without glancing at the gun is not something that I can gain.
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In absolutely no way being critical, but if you haven't already, you should try competing in USPSA. I won't post our videos, we are far from experts, but it takes less than a second to drop and load up another magazine.

I would trust my life to my daughter (we competed together for a while.) She is more competent with any firearm than many old-timers we've competed against. Plus me. Puts me to shame, but I'm proud of her - and all the old guys fawn over her.
 
Originally Posted by OldMarksman View Post
I have found, however, that the skill necessary fo replace a magazine extremely quickly without glancing at the gun is not something that I can gain.
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A drill we used to do with both rifle and pistol was magazine changes from every pouch on our gear with our eyes closed. You'll figure it out really fast, particularly if you only have one magazine pouch. I don't want to insult your intelligence, but properly indexing the magazine in your hand (pointer finger touching the nose of the first round), going flat to flat (flat base of the magazine against the flat back of the magazine well) becomes second nature after a few hundred reps with your eyes closed. Your index finger will 'know' where your support hand is and adjust accordingly. I get the feeling you're no amateur, but this is a simple process that can be ingrained into your muscle memory in a short while.


On that note: One of the key things I have picked up through a few courses.... LOAD YOUR PISTOL THE SAME WAY EVERY TIME. If you are loading at the range, bring it to slide lock which it should be at the bench anyway, present on target, then bring it back as if you are reloading. Do this every single time you load. You build repetitions which builds muscle memory. Do it the same exact way every single time you load a pistol and reloading under stress becomes less problematic. If you only ever load a pistol the way you would reload under stress, it becomes habit.

To go one step further, when I was carrying a rifle and pistol and lots of magazines for work, when we would load our pistols we would load from the least accessible magazine pouch, go condition 1, tac reload from the next least accessible pouch to go +1, re-holster, top off the original magazine and put it back in its place. Muscle memory is everything and any time you skip repetitions you are doing yourself a disservice.
 
Thanks much, Rob, for your well-expressed thoughts here.

I have seen people do it very quickly indeed. I have not been able to rise to their level.

I am not sure that practiced skills would help much in a real use of force incident. Consider a Tueller scenario--2 1/2 seconds to draw and fire. How much margin is there for a reload?

I carried an exrta magazine some time ago, but I stopped.

I do carry a backup gun--primarily so I can access if with my left hand while strapped into the drivers seat. Carjacking has become "a thing" recently.

Going back to the OP, it's an LCP Max.
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Thanks again. I do appreciate it
 
OldMarksman said:
I am not sure that practiced skills would help much in a real use of force incident. Consider a Tueller scenario--2 1/2 seconds to draw and fire. How much margin is there for a reload?
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Practiced skills are how a person gets to a level where they are able to draw and deliver rounds within that 2.5 seconds. Practiced skills are what they are, whether it's a draw or a reload. You practice and achieve a level of proficiency and maintain that proficiency while attempting to improve and hope that you're able to maintain that if/when the time comes.

The Tueller drill is based on someone rushing you. I'm not sure if your argument is that during a reload you will be rushed, but I'd point out that reloads done completely exposed aren't generally the goal (although they can and do happen). The hope would be to get behind some form of concealment/cover, or not get to the point where you are doing an emergency/slide-lock reload, but a tactical reload where you are topping off as time/distance or opportunity present itself. If I have delivered all of the rounds in my main magazine and not moved or repositioned myself, something unusual has happened or I started in one hell of an advantageous position.

How common/likely is it that a person will perform a reload of any kind is always a question. There are certainly cases where it has happened, and many more cases where it hasn't. Personally I like having the option, and additionally I find carrying the extra magazine helps balance out the weight on my belt. If someone doesn't feel the need to carry an extra magazine, or in your case prefers to carry a backup gun then that goes again to the main topic here, being how a person determines what is best for him/her.
 
You don't rise to your highest level of training you rise to your highest level of muscle memory. I've been in combat arms for 21 years and honestly am not a fan of unarmed combat, despite being an instructor in it. If I have a rifle I am fighting with it, if I have a pistol I am fighting with it, my boxing stance and my shooting stance are the same. If you can cover your face and neck and keep your shooting hand free you are in the money, I know I said I am not a fan of unarmed, but I had to roll around a lot to come up with that decision. A lot of my coworkers can do bad things to an armed person if allowed to close space.

Train to do a handful of things very well and you are well ahead of the game.7

That being said, I don't carry a reload, and if I'm not carrying 15+1 in a Glock 19/Shadow Systems Clone, I'm carrying 7+1 in a Sig 938. I will never resort to hand to hand on my own time, and I'd rather break contact than engage more than one person.
 
So I'm about ten years removed from carrying firearms for serious work but I still have it ingrained to me to load like I was reloading from a dry weapon. Its not a bad habit to have.
 
Personally, I view a spare magazine in the same way that I view a spare tire. I don't carry it because I expect that I'll need it, nor do I presume that I would necessarily be able to use it well should an immediate need for it arise, but simply because I would rather it be there in case I should need it.

Ultimately, guns are an absolute last resort for me, so I'm just not of the mindset to prepare for some absolute, worst case scenario in which not only am I forced to defend myself in an armed confrontation in spite of my best efforts to avoid it, especially not when the odds are almost hopelessly stacked against me.
No matter how you slice it, being outnumbered equals bad odds, so if folks feel more confident preparing for some worst case scenario in which they should end up in a shootout with multiple assailants, then that's there prerogative, but I'm not even going to pretend that there's any point in doing so, because I sincerely doubt my ability to escape such a scenario unscathed without divine intervention, and if that's how it's going to be, then obviously it won't matter what I'm carrying because it's going to be an honest to goodness David and Goliath situation.
 
Stop being concerned with Critic's , Criticism and anything they have to say .
You are free to carry whatever you want .
During a "situation" the critic's will not show up to help you ...they didn't show up to help me ... Just don't read what "they" have to say ... Criticism is nothing to fear ,
it's just some foolish words ...Ignore the Critics ... Ignore the Critisim ...
Do what you feel is right .

Her's a truth... No matter what you do there will always be a critic around to criticise ... it's their mission in life to criticise everything . Develop a "I could care less" attitude and carry on without them .
Gary
 
It would be a good idea to have an objective basis for that feeling.
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And I think that's the whole issue. We are all looking for an answer but there are always going to be scenarios where we need more ammo.

For example, 1000 rounds might not be enough if I am in a gun fight with 20 ninjas hopped up on angel dust. Sounds ridiculous but its what our brains are tricking us to believe. We play the 'What if' game because we are all preppers and want to be over prepared just in case.

Realistically, most people in the US with normal white/blue collar jobs will never need a gun. Just showing a gun stops most encounters. And statistically most self defense encounters requires firing <3 rounds. Yet I still don't feel that comfortable ONLY carrying 6 rounds even though there is like a 99.9999% (made up # but you get the point it's well over 99%) that I will never need a gun let alone more than 3 rounds. Our minds, TV, scenarios, what ifs, etc are messing with our sense of reality, myself included.
 
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For example, 1000 rounds might not be enough if I am in a gun fight with 20 ninjas hopped up on angel dust. Sounds ridiculous but its what our brains are tricking us to believe. We play the 'What if' game because we are all preppers and want to be over prepared just in case.
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When I first enlisted, pre GWOT we were still stuck in a Vietnam mindset of patrolling: 13 magazines and at least 12 quarts of water. Ten years after that, when a vehicle with spare ammo, food and water was never more than an hour away 6 magazines and a camelback became acceptable, but it took a solid ten years to break out of a previously established mindset.

When I first started carrying I was carrying a commander length 1911 with no reloads. I slowly began to start carrying a 642 in my pocket as a backup. I then switched to a Glock 36 because it was lighter. Bought a Glock 26 for my wife and fell in love with it. Switched to a Glock 19 because it was just as easy to conceal. I have a 1 and 2 pouch setup for carrying reloads but I don't any more. Switched to a Shadow Systems MR920L, longer barrel and an RMR because I shoot it a little bit better. If I feel like I need to carry a spare magazine, I typically put an AR in the truck.

Mindsets change, but it takes a LONG time and there has to be a driving force behind the change. Some people are immediately comfortable with what they carry, some are not. Heck, there are people on this forum that still insist on carrying condition 3. In my mind that is a lack of training leading to a lack of confidence, but for them they may have their own reasons and I can't see through their lens and they can't through mine.
 
People are nuts. They can’t go shopping without carrying a bottle of water. I don’t think it really matters how many guns, backups, ammo and EDC knives and lights they carry. 95%of them are going to pee their pants and die when some punk kills them with a sharp stick.
At self defense range the willingness to shoot is more important that anything else. Get a quality piece a learn how to shoot and clean it. End of Story.
 
Rob228 said:
When I first enlisted, pre GWOT we were still stuck in a Vietnam mindset of patrolling: 13 magazines and at least 12 quarts of water. Ten years after that, when a vehicle with spare ammo, food and water was never more than an hour away 6 magazines and a camelback became acceptable, but it took a solid ten years to break out of a previously established mindset.

When I first started carrying I was carrying a commander length 1911 with no reloads. I slowly began to start carrying a 642 in my pocket as a backup. I then switched to a Glock 36 because it was lighter. Bought a Glock 26 for my wife and fell in love with it. Switched to a Glock 19 because it was just as easy to conceal. I have a 1 and 2 pouch setup for carrying reloads but I don't any more. Switched to a Shadow Systems MR920L, longer barrel and an RMR because I shoot it a little bit better. If I feel like I need to carry a spare magazine, I typically put an AR in the truck.

Mindsets change, but it takes a LONG time and there has to be a driving force behind the change. Some people are immediately comfortable with what they carry, some are not. Heck, there are people on this forum that still insist on carrying condition 3. In my mind that is a lack of training leading to a lack of confidence, but for them they may have their own reasons and I can't see through their lens and they can't through mine.
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Condition 3 is debatable. For on duty carry, no. For a CCW weapon that you will have around your family, I think condition 3 is a viable option. I never considered condition 3 until I went to a SWAT in service training that was taught by a former IDF commando. He demonstrated how fast condition 3 can be. Despite the fact that a rule of firearms safety has to be broken for a firearms injury to occur, I like the added safety condition 3 brings around my young kids.
 
Sigkid79 said:
I’ve seen critics jump on semi-auto concealed carry firearms that hold anywhere from 7-10 rounds. Apparently this is not enough to handle a threat despite the fact that 3 shots are what it usually takes to handle a self defense situation according to FBI stats. Reading some posts here, you’d think that anything less than a full-size pistol that holds 15+ rounds is inadequate.

My 2 concealed carry firearms are a 10-round Glock 43x, and a 12-round Sig Sauer P365x. When the conversation of the 43x comes up, the first thing I hear is , “have you picked up the Shield Arms 15-round mag yet?”. My response is “no”. Reason being?…… It’s a concealed carry that is lightweight and I want to keep it that way. 5 more rounds will just add more weight to the firearm, plus 10-rounds is sufficient enough to handle any self defense situation that I may encounter. This is a defense weapon. Not a battle weapon.

Why dont I see the same criticism when it comes to revolvers? The majority of revolvers that carry adequate self defense rounds are limited to 5-6 rounds. Yet I see nothing but praise for revolvers as concealed carry self defense weapons. Not only do they hold much less rounds, but they’re also more difficult to reload. Especially during a high stress situation.

Now I have nothing against revolvers. I’m just perplexed to the criticism that semi auto’s with low round capacity’s receive vs the extremely low capacity of that of revolvers.
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It might be as simple as some of the younger crowd may not even be taking revolvers into consideration when they write about cc. Depending on their age, they may never have become familiar with a revolver, or consider it out dated or irrelevant.

What might matter more is what you actually own, your familiarity/competence with it, ability to carry concealed and willingness to actually use it.

When starting ccing after it was legalized up here, carried a 638. Eventually transitioned to semi for ease of concealing/shooting accurately (with less practice).
 
Average Joe said:
Small and light is my choice for EDC. If I need more rounds, I'll just carry a spare mag.
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Same here. My first edc was a Ruger LC9s that I still have as it was passed on to the wife. I then picked up a G19 gen 5. Great shooting gun but too large (in my taste) to comfortably edc without printing. Especially living in FL where my everyday attire is shorts and T 90% of the time. I sold it and picked up a Sig P365x which I still own and carry. Love that gun! Comfortable, lightweight, and very easily concealable with 12-13 rounds.
 
My Glock 19 with my Sig P365. Same capacity mags.

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I see quite a few hard knocks on revolvers for conceal carry, personally Ive carried them but these days theres not a great reason to do so. I think a 6+1rd 380 is a better option than a 5 or 6 shot revolver not because of power, but that reloads will be quicker. Now its common to see 10-13rd 9mm pistols that can slide into the pocket. Needed? Maybe not but if the capacity is there to be had, why not take it? The flip side to that is that people are now becoming accustomed to having this much capacity and as such will see a 6rd pocket 380 or 9mm as having too little capacity because deep down having more rounds on tap is comforting to most people.
 
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