Why so anti-McCain?

HUH? Doesn't flip-flop? Can you explain this:


Quote:
On illegal immigration, Mr. McCain said that anyone who says he supported amnesty is "a liar"
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Hmmm... how is that a flip flop?

I would call it a consistent incorrect interpretation of reality, but not a flip flop. Amnesty by any other name is still Amnesty. He was for it then, he is for it now. He just doesn't like to use the word amnesty because its politically unpopular.
 
He just doesn't like to use the word amnesty because its politically unpopular.
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Yep. Opponents have picked this label to get an emotional response out of of the least sophisticated who are either too lazy or not smart enough to grasp the details.
 
I am very familiar with his proposal, and don't consider myself particularly stupid. This bill was amnesty plain and simple. If you disagree, I would like to know why.
 
Heavy fines, back taxes, mandatory ID card, end of the line for citizenship.etc.

Regardless of who is president ,if any of you think that these people are going to be sent back you are simply kidding yourself.
 
The $2K fine is not hefty, it is about the same as the total for the document fees for someone to become a legal immigrant and green card holder if you don't count immigration attorney fees.

Back taxes....If I did not pay taxes how would I be treated?
 
I hear you MC. But, do you think a bunch of housecleaners and concrete workers can pay more? You want to pay the cost to put them in jail? Want to figure out how to find and deport 10 million people? There is no simple fix for this.
 
Trusting McCain to be pro-2A or any other issue for that matter would be a SERIOUS mistake. I remember all the way back to '99 or so not liking the toad because of some of the selling out he was doing. The MSM likes him WAY too much. Any amount of leftist stuff he doesn't propose himself he doesn't do much at all to oppose. I also don't care for him using his veteran status as a weapon: he pulls the special class card every time he can. Most of my family has been in the military, virtually all of the older gen in WWII, and not a single one of them has EVER acted like it was some reason to hand them the keys to everything, never acting like anyone owed them anything. McCain brings it up every 20 seconds. Not to say his service wasn't real, but he degrades it by using it as a pawn. It's classless.
 
ZeroJunk,

I agree we cannot find and deport all of them. A phased set of fines against employers would cause them to go back home and get into the legal process. I would favor heavy fines against employers and an offsetting elimination of the death tax. I also think the current immigration process is broken. IMO based more on how someone will vote if they become citizens than on skills, home country persecution, etc. The immigration process is set up to benefit lawyers due to the complexity. My wife is a green card holder and I personally went through the "process". It makes the tax code seem simple. How could you find a terrorist if you are focused on tons of useless paperwork and a fee for each form.

If you get caught working illegally in Mexico you will spend prison time. An inconvenient truth.
 
Regardless of who is president ,if any of you think that these people are going to be sent back you are simply kidding yourself.
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And even if it were possible do we really want a federal government that has the resources to track and then deport over ten million people. What would they do with those resources afterwards?
 
Heavy fines, back taxes, mandatory ID card, end of the line for citizenship.etc.
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The only part of that that could be remotely considered punishment is the heavy fines. They already owe the taxes, whether they are here legally or not.


You want to pay the cost to put them in jail? Want to figure out how to find and deport 10 million people? There is no simple fix for this.
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I disagree. The fix IS simple, despite what our pro-illegal immigration politicians tell us. Our leaders tell us how impossible it is to track these people because our leaders don't want to solve the problem.

We don't need to put anyone in jail. I don't even support rounding them all up. But when an illegal comes into contact with our system, they should be sent back to Mexico. For example, if an illegal gets pulled over for DUI, instead of charging him with that, just send him home. If an illegal gets appendicitis and goes to the hospital, upon recovery immediately send him home. Eventually, they will all round themselves up, or die, but in any case, the problem finally goes away.
 
first off my wife is an immigrant (germany). we spent almost 2 grand to get her green card. and then waited and waited and waited some more until they finally processed everything.

I have no problem with immigrants as long as they come here legally.

I live within a few miles of the border and every time I go out hunting or hiking I come across the trash the illegals leave or sometimes the illegals.

I have many times held them at gunpoint until the BP arrives (I always carry a cell and a portable cB) when I call. It is simple folks like me that are trying to protect the border.

some times the illegals are the least of the worries down here. the drug runners and gun runners come through the border like it was nothing. little to stop them except for a few locals.

I don't belong to any militia or the other border groups. I just open carry no matter where I am in the desert and I use it for self defense or to hold the illegals.

McCain wouldn't to a darn thing for fellow Arizonans if he were elected. Secure the border? heck no! The only way he will ever get my vote is if he actually makes it to the presidential ticket against the others. Then and only then would I vote for him instead of hillary or obama.

Now, with the illegals I have no love for them. If they are here illegally (I don't care where they came from) then we need to lock them up. Boot camps in the desert work for me. If they escape they have lots of desert to cover to make it anywhere.

This country is falling apart from the freakin "feel good" politically correct folks. Those of us that have had to fight for the freedom of others are fed up. We need to get tough on the issues and not take the weak, politically correct route. We can no longer offer an outstretched hand to anyone. We need to take care of ourselves first instead of last.

And not a single candidate out there has the balls to fix this country. To bad we cant clone teddy roosevelt and put him in office.

This has been my political rant. Those who agree welcome to my maddness. Those who disagree, well you are welcome for the privelages I defended so that you could disagree, but personally go shove it.!

GOD (yes GOD) bless America (what's left of it anyway) :mad:
 
The fix is simple. It is being demonstrated in Arizona and Oklahoma. Just make real punishment for employers of illegals and the illegals will leave on their own. Employers are not a brave lot. Once they see just a few of their lot being punished they will follow the law.

This is good viewing and worth the time. This is a good example of how it works. Now Mexico is sending its lawmakers to Arizona to protest the new law against hiring illegals. They are saying Mexico cannot support workers returning to Mexico looking for jobs, so please stop this new law. In other words, please continue to hire illegals at wages that preclude American workers so they (the illegals) can send their tax free wages to Mexico.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/01/25/beck.law.and.border.crisis.cnn

Lets just call it tough love. We control our border and stop employers from hiring illegals. Then when enough Mexican citizens get feed up the corrupt government in Mexico the whole mess will pressurize and explode. Then maybe Mexico can start providing for it's citizens the way it was supposed to in the first place.
 
I used to get calls from the Republican National Committee for funds or whatever. I have almost hung up a couple times strictly because of the border issue. One female caller sounded a bit shopworn and told me "I understand..." which means she got the same spiel from others.

Another young male Texan-sounding type solicited me and I said they should put minefields along the border. He demurred saying someone might be hurt - which is exactly the idea. Bush wants to flood this country with barbarism from wherever to dilute American resistance to utopian control which he likely has in mind for the future. Read the Apocalypse on one world government.

The alien hordes must be deported. They must be cut off from work and all benefits which would get rid of most of them. Maybe a couple years in a desert prison camp would calm their passions to come here. Actually they should do something about their own government which is actually the tenth richest nation in the world.

Remember that Mexican female who hid out in a local hillbilly storefront church in Chicago? She was finally deported after going to California to testify about something. That went on right around the corner from me. Well they have a new broad in there trumpeting her presence. This one is a fat squaw who doesn't want to go back to her three kids in Mexico because she can't feed them there. I wonder who is, if I may ask? What about daddy, if I may make a suggestion? Since she is not exactly Gina Lolobrigida and doesn't seem terribly literate I guess she will just sit there and draw Mexican station broadcast trucks until they get tired of it. Actually I think we are all getting tired of it.
 
The alien hordes must be deported.
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To each his own, but that is not my view. Sounds like the fifteenth century to me.

This is my view. I worked in Mexico for many years. What I have proposed sounds tough, but I do understand anyone trying to work to support their family. But the reality is that we cannot support free medical services and that the depressing of wages is a real problem and causing some Americans to live in border line conditions themselves.

Mexico will not address their problems until we force the issue by making them face up to their failure to take care of providing for their own people.

Maybe a couple years in a desert prison camp would calm their passions to come here.
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Disagree. No matter what else, these people are human and we have to maintain a certain level of respect.

Actually they should do something about their own government which is actually the tenth richest nation in the world.
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Agree.
 
Yes - UniversalFrost ...If no one is willing to hire them then they will go. If the truth were known, I suspect we would find that Mexico is cutting the cost of imprisoning their worst crimminals by sending them here.
 
UniversalFrost,

Kinda off subject, but I came within in a inch of retiring to Sierra Vista, Arizona. Beautiful place. Just a little to close to the border. I had already lived in El Paso, which is not close but on the border....yards...rock throwing distance.
 
madmag, sierra vista is very nice. other than the few illegals here and there (we have a very large border patrol presence here). Yes ElPaso is a **** if I every saw one and really wouldn't have a problem if the build that new fence around it to keep the mexicans in el paso. :D

JOE
 
Just a quick note here...I see repeated references to some supposed herculean effort which will be needed to 'find' the illegals prior to deporting them.

From a law enforcement perspective, I can assure you this is incorrect. They will find you.

They are destroying lives and property by being involved in DWI accidents, of course sans license or insurance. I know of several decent, working, taxpaying US citizens who were essentially ruined financially in this manner.

They are shaking babies to death. I can show you their tombstones. They are molesting children and raping adults. They are parading around in gangs. They are murderers. They are identity thieves.

The atrocities are almost never occur on their first contact with law enforcement. No, these are 'frequent fliers' with BICE and the locals.

But in each case there was a 'first' contact and right there is where the crime problem can be solved. Whenever, wherever LE apprehends an undocumented alien, from ANY country- BICE should be collecting them up, stowing them in a detention center, and fingerprinting/photographing them while they await their bus/plane to wherever. The second illegal entry should be a federal felony, with 2 years of hard time under the likes of Sheriff Joe. Any employer caught importing or harboring them should be raking sand in the desert right alongside them.

Every so often I visit the tombstone of a little two year old boy who was the victim of an undocumented alien, and an idiot mother who valued the comfort of Latino Romeo over the safety of her own flesh & blood. Romeo was here illegally for about the 6th time, near as anyone could tell. He had numerous previous LE contacts and several priors for crimes less serious than killing a child. So why was he still here? Because the taxpayer-funded federal agency which exists for the express purpose of dealing with aliens, has been hamstrung and/or lost its focus.

I have no use for any presidential candidate who will not use the resources of the federal government to protect our citizens from criminals imported from foreign soil. We can solve this problem, through vigorous enforcement, deportation, and the attrition that will result when that effort is combined with a secure border.




They bring their lifestyle with them and often they were the dregs of the society from which they sprang.
 
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