Cheapshooter
New member
I know, I have one of each, and an E. German Makarov.
Typo, been corrected. I was laughing too hard about your previous post to notice!
Last edited:
Why no makarov in 9mm?
- Thread starter militant
- Start date
Typo, been corrected. I was laughing too hard about your previous post to notice!
That's an unusual theory.
Well, KelTec, Kahr and S&W may be stumped, but at least this powerhouse of firearm design & innovation has managed to solve the problem.
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/Hi-Point-handguns/9MM_handgun.html
"Capacity: 8-shot mag standard (10-shot avail)"
The picture in the link below provides a hint as to why single-stack 9mm magazines usually don't exceed 8 shot capacity.
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/images/sliders/flexslider/9mm-handgun/9mm4.jpg
I Never said STUMPED so don't put words in my mouth please! I used the word phenomena for a very specific reason sir! I have spoken directly to gun engineering people of which I am sure you are not.
For my position I will stay with the statements of those engineers and we need to leave it there before you get angry.......okay! With all due respect I don't accept your opinion on this issue. Beside it was only an internet debate anyway! There are no winner or losers in this media!
For my position I will stay with the statements of those engineers and we need to leave it there before you get angry.......okay! With all due respect I don't accept your opinion on this issue. Beside it was only an internet debate anyway! There are no winner or losers in this media!
You stated that Kahr, Kel-Tec and S&W found that they were limited to using about 8 rounds in a single stack 9x19mm magazine. If you don't like the word "stumped" then substitute "unable to exceed this supposed 8 round 'limit'". It doesn't change the meaning of the statement.
I provided an example of a single-stack 10 round 9x19mm magazine in current production. I'm not sure how that qualifies as an opinion.
Or you could send them the links I provided.
Walt Sherrill
New member
You must have spent some time reading Kahr press releases!! Kahr has the best solution? More likely it's just another solution. Wilson Combat's 10-round 9mm single-stack mag is another solution, and I'm willing to bet that Wilson has far more of his 9mm hi-cap mags in use than does Kahr. Hi-point, as noted in prior responses, offers a 10-round 9mm single stack, and there are aftermarket versions that hold 15 rounds available. That fearsome 9mm taper doesn't seem to be too big a problem for those mag makers.
By the way: a patent just means that some feature of a design can't be copied without consequences. It means that the "protected" feature is UNIQUE, not that it's necessarily the BEST solution.
agent109 said:
That's Mec-Gar, not Mag Gear. Except for 1911 mags, Mec-Gar is considered the gold standard for magazines. If you have a Luger with mag problems, for example, Mec-Gar has the solution. Single-stack or double-stack -- it doesn't matter. Many major gun makers use Mec-Gar as their OEM supplier. Kel-Tec is not unique in that respect.
I have a PF9. It holds seven rounds. If it were to hold more rounds, it would no longer be an easily concealed "pocketable" weapon -- the reason I bought it. I've been shooting it, off and on, for several years, now. I try to shoot it each time I go to the range. I've got several hundred rounds through it. If that follower ever becomes a problem, I know how to replace a follower -- and Kel-Tec will probably send me one free of charge.
Interesting aside: you can chamber a round in a Kel-Tec PF9 and still load a full 7-round mag. Kahr mags work fine when you start with a loaded 7-round mag and chamber the first round using the slide release. If you chamber a round and then load a 7-round Kahr mag there are sometimes feed problems. Kahr warns against 7+1 in their manual. Maybe Mr. Moon should work on THOSE mags?
agent109 said:
Kel-Tec is a questionable expert source regarding hi-cap single-stack mags; their only single-stack 9mm gun was designed to be a very small, light, and concealable weapon. A long, hi-cap mag in that gun would work at cross-purposes with its design objective. I doubt they've spent much time working on hi-cap single stack mags.
agent109 said:
Some might accuse you of a bit of bloviating, here. You seem to be trying to "argue from authority" by citing discussions with gun designers, but you tell us NOTHING of what they said about high-cap single stack mag design. You imply that your opinions are based on those discussions. Perhaps, but I'd rather hear it from the sources themselves. Do you have any website links, textbook or technical source citations, or personal correspondence supporting your claims that can be shared with us? Your arguments, thus far, haven't really offered much in the way of evidence or proof; they also fly in the face of what a number of us know, have seen and used.. You're only argument seems to be "I'm right. Trust me."
On the other hand, I do respect K-T's technical expertise. I suspect that if Kel-Tec really wanted to develop a very high-cap mag for some of their smaller guns (including 9mm) they could do it. But a single stack mag hi-cap would simply be too large for those guns -- and THAT is the reality you continue to ignore. Hi-cap single stack mags are cumbersome and hard to use in most handguns. I'm not sure there's much demand for them, except for 1911s and Hi-Point carbines.
Kel-Tec has developed a 30-round .22 WMR magazine that works like a charm. Until they did that, the largest mag available (for use in an Automag II .22 WMR) was a 10-round single-stack. Earlier versions held 6 or 7 rounds. The .22 WMR is a rimmed round that presents a greater technical challenge for a gun designer than the very slightly tapered 9mm round.
.
Last edited:
Let me get this straight now.
"Single stack magazines won't work because of the taper of the case."
"Well, here's one. I use it every day."
"8 rounds is about the limit before the phenomenon is a big problem."
"Well, here's one in 9, here's one in 10, and here's one in 15 rounds that work great."
"I trust the people that are smarter than you. Doesn't matter if what I said won't work is standing right in front of me, you can't possibly be right."
Are you by any chance a politician?
"Single stack magazines won't work because of the taper of the case."
"Well, here's one. I use it every day."
"8 rounds is about the limit before the phenomenon is a big problem."
"Well, here's one in 9, here's one in 10, and here's one in 15 rounds that work great."
"I trust the people that are smarter than you. Doesn't matter if what I said won't work is standing right in front of me, you can't possibly be right."
Are you by any chance a politician?
As far as blowback 9mms go, I wonder if it would be possible to use a double recoil spring setup. When you grab the slide to rack it, a spring on a guide rod could be allowed to pass through the frame without compressing. When firing it would compress along with a spring on the fixed barrel?
There it is......Internet Herd Mentality from the clique! You boys need a little more sunshine. Don't get your drawers in a wad......It's only the internet guys......lighten up.
Am I not allowed to state my opinions or am I required to be part of the herd? Why do I have to be like minded with your mindset?
Did you all enjoy ganging up and piling on? I don't sit on my computer 24/7 and pound my chest and bloviate to the subordinates and underlings. Heaven forbid someone says something you can't wrap your heads around. They will be flamed as foreigners and intruders into your private fantasy world.
Am I not allowed to state my opinions or am I required to be part of the herd? Why do I have to be like minded with your mindset?
Did you all enjoy ganging up and piling on? I don't sit on my computer 24/7 and pound my chest and bloviate to the subordinates and underlings. Heaven forbid someone says something you can't wrap your heads around. They will be flamed as foreigners and intruders into your private fantasy world.Everyone's allowed to state their opinions. If they state opinions that are obviously contradicted by fact, they should expect the contradiction to be brought to their attention.
If you want to state opinions on the internet without fear of being contradicted, start a blog and disable comments. OR, carefully research your opinions before stating them so that you can back them up with fact if someone disagrees.
While it can be unpleasant to have one's mistakes pointed out, that's not the same as being flamed. No one has insulted you or flamed you, they have merely pointed out that some of your claims are inconsistent with fact.
You are not your opinions, and pointing out that your opinions are flawed is not the same thing as flaming you as a person.
Evil Monkey
New member
.........or you can have a locked breech and not do any of that.
Cheapshooter
New member
Remington R51. Didn't that work out spectacularly!
Maybe it's problem was it had a single stack mag!
Walt Sherrill
New member
That story isn't over yet. But Remington sure didn't do themselves any favors by introducing a gun before it was ready. The problems seemed to have more to do with poor production practices and quality control than a flawed design. Those who have ones that work like them.
On the other hand, I think SIG had a few problems when they first introduced their 1911 line. Ruger had some issues with the their LC9, a knockoff of the Kel-Tec PF-9. Both were variations of an existing design. Both companies eventually got it right.
I suspect Remington will get it right, too, if their reputation isn't so badly damaged as to scare buyers away...