why is the 357 superior to the 9?

.357 gets superior speed simply by burning more, slower powder. At the end of the day, you can only get more speed by burning more powder.

As a handloader, I can tell you the .357 with a magnum-type powder (WW296, Alliant 2400) uses roughly 3x the amount of propellant the 9mm uses. The 9mm burns about as much powder as .38 Special does, but is more efficient IMO, because it runs at higher pressures.

Don't forget revolvers don't have to feed bullets from a magazine. My Glocks are boringly reliable with almost any bullet shape, but you can still stuff a wider, larger hollow point into the chamber of a .357. As was stated, my S&W M-19 doesn't care if it's fed wadcutters, SWCs, hollowpoints or full metal jackets. Not many autos are that forgiving.

That said, my go-to woods and bumming gun is still my G-17. More ammo, more comfortable to shoot, and I have more experience with it. I'm perfectly comfortable with the 9mm round, and I think 124gr +P JHPs are fine for my needs. Of course, come fall hunting season, the .357 will be the go-to! ;)

Oh, and my chronograph can attest to the 1200+ fps with a 158gr .357 loads in a 4" barrel. This is borderline for my comfort in the K-frame S&W; a GP-100 or 686 would be great. And I also think it is too much for SD uses; most 158gr .357 bullets are too tough IMO. A 140gr bullet at 1250 seems to me like a perfect compromise between bullet weight, speed and controlability in the revolver.

Lastly, I'd like to note that the really hot +P 124gr 9mms (Speer Gold Dots are rated at 1250-fps in this load; Double-Taps are hotter, Winchester Rangers in 127 are pretty close) to me feel more like shooting hardball .45 ACP in a 5" 1911. There goes your "lower recoil" advantage. It is still softer than most .357 loadings though.
 
Also, the .357 fired out of a revolver is utilizing all of the energy from the explosion to propel the round, none of the kinetic energy generated is utilized to recycle the action. This leads to more felt recoil of the "kick" variety, however this is usually mitigated by the lack of slide movement. Either one can be managed with sufficient training, it's all about what works better for you.
 
"why is the 357 superior to the 9?"

Concerning the comparable weighted loads at comparable velocities, as stipulated, there is no reason because it isn't so. Full stop.
 
Also, the .357 fired out of a revolver is utilizing all of the energy from the explosion to propel the round, none of the kinetic energy generated is utilized to recycle the action.
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Typical autopistols do not bleed off energy to cycle the action, they operate using the recoil generated from the discharge of the projectile and the jet effect of the gases generated by the powder combustion.

Both guns recoil, the autopistol uses some of the recoil energy to cycle the action the revolver doesn't. So it's not a matter of either one stealing velocity from the projectile, it's a matter of one making use of the unavoidable fact of recoil to do something useful. There could be infinitesimal differences in the resulting projectile velocity due nuances in the way the two guns recoil, but it's a complete non-issue in practical terms.
 
9mm versus .357

I'm just wondering if the .357 is so much superior to the 9mil why is it that the majority of the military and law enforcement agencies use the 9 mil ?
 
Then just load up your .357 Magnum with heavier bullets and its no longer too fast. The .357 magnum can be loaded with anything from 110 grain to 200 grain with every kind of bullet type you can imagine from huge hollowpoints, wadcutters, semi-wadcutters with jacketed, hardcast, plated, etc. etc.

tovarich, the 9mm is used by more by the military and police because its much more practical and is better suited for most people. The 9mm can be had in a variety of excellent auto pistols(the standard for military and police as opposed to revolvers) which are lighter in weight and smaller in size than a .357 magnum revolver, its cheaper to buy ammunition(which is a huge factor when considering how much ammo the military uses), has less recoil and muzzle flash which makes it easier to train with(especially for raw recruits and women) and allows for much greater ammo capacity.
 
I'm just wondering if the .357 is so much superior to the 9mil why is it that the majority of the military and law enforcement agencies use the 9 mil ?
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Because 9mm feeds better in automatic weapons. For those of us still comfortable with a revolver, .357 Magnum can do anything a 9mm can do and more.
 
Actually, the 9mm is way, way superior to the .357 in actual combat. Its lower recoil allows you to follow up with more shots far more quickly and accurately. While a .357 revolver can hold anywhere from 5 to 8 rounds, many 9mm handguns hold 13, 16, or even 18 rounds easily.

While else do you think that the US Army carries the Beretta M9???

The .357 magnum revolver is a dying gun and round, except in places where the ownership of semiauto pistols is outlawed.
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I really thought I'd heard it all. In no way is the 9mm better than the 357mag. 1st off; you aren't in, nor will you be, in "Actual Combat". So if you NEED 13,16, or 18 rounds, then you better go learn to shoot. The traditional 6 shots in a revolver or 7 in a magazine should be more than enough against the possible armed robber on the street. If you plan on taking on an entire gang, over your wallet, then you need a lot more help than your 18 round 9mm.

And as for the 357mag revolver dieing; I actually don't know how to respond to such uneducated comments. When you realize how many revolvers are being carried and used for self defense and home defense; and how many are 357mag/38spl; come back and join the party. Yes, the 9mm and 40sw are very popular rounds. And most people who carry them are doing so for reasons that don't apply to them. Not saying the 9mm or 40sw isn't an effective cartridge. It is. So is the 25acp, 32acp, 380acp,,,,,, 44magnum. If used correctly and accurately. But the whole 15-18 rounds, NATO uses it, Military/Police Use it, etc.... has no bearing on average Joe/Jane using it. You aren't going to be knocking on the door of a potential meth lab with 5 felons inside. You aren't going to be walking in on illegal activities with multiple attackers. You aren't buying ammo in the hundreds of thousands of rounds where taxpayers are paying the cost of the ammo. Go learn some facts.
 
I would agree that the .357 would be a superior round to the 9 mil but I'm also certain that a very large percentage of .357 gun owners don't really shoot well with those guns.My mistake was to start target shooting when I was 21(after my military service)with a 9 mm Browning HP.After an absence of 35 years from the firing range I restarted my old hobby(I shot for 15 years regularly 2 to 3 times a week) and I bought a Buckmark UDX .22 and having a lot of fun with it. My second gun I bought 40 years ago was a S&W combat magnum .357 for which I reloaded my rounds.I now shoot .38 spl with it.I think most of us would agree that for puncturing carton targets you really do not need a cannon and that a lot of it is a bit macho attitude.Mine is bigger than yours kind of stuff. I'm 72 today (its my birthday) so I've come to the years of reason I guess so now I'm starting to learn to shoot properly with my Buckmark and when all goes well will start shooting my HP 9 mil and reach a certain proficiency with it before I'm too old to hold my gun and lift it.Sorry for the ravings of an old geezer.
 
it is not. Too much speed provides for too quick bullet deformation.

Check it out for yourself with Winchester's Comparison Tool here:
http://www.winchester.com/lawenforce...win_flash.html

compare e.g. a 147gr 9x19mm load to the .357 Sig loads.
Scroll to the right to see all the results in different target media.
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.357 Magnum and .357 Sig are not the same thing. .357 Sig is often loaded with 9mm bullets that are not meant to be driven at such high velocities while .357 Magnum bullets often hold up quite well. Brassfetcher's ballistic gell tests of .357 Magnum 125grn Speer Gold Dots showed 16+" of penetration and excellent expansion.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Speer%20125%20grain%20Gold%20Dot%20hollowpoint.html
 
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Actually, the 9mm is way, way superior to the .357 in actual combat. Its lower recoil allows you to follow up with more shots far more quickly and accurately. While a .357 revolver can hold anywhere from 5 to 8 rounds, many 9mm handguns hold 13, 16, or even 18 rounds easily.

While else do you think that the US Army carries the Beretta M9???

The .357 magnum revolver is a dying gun and round, except in places where the ownership of semiauto pistols is outlawed.
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This must be a joke whats the punchline? I wonder if the 9mm is a superior combat round why the US Army is now admitting the switch from the 1911 to the Beretta was a huge mistake. The cheap junk body armor Al Queda is using stops the 9mm but the 45acp would punch hard enough to stop a person wearing this stuff even if it did not fully penetrate it would slow them down enough to get the upper hand.
The 357 is dying? Really? It is in the top five best selling handgun rounds every year. It is far from dying.
 
Knew that would push some buttons...:D Whatever you like and shoot better is the better round. For me, that is .357 Magnum. I hate 9mm, but I respect your choice if you love it.
 
The cheap junk body armor Al Queda is using stops the 9mm but the 45acp would punch hard enough to stop a person wearing this stuff even if it did not fully penetrate it would slow them down enough to get the upper hand.
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Neither round will stop a person wearing body armor if it doesn't penetrate and anyway, 9mm tends to penetrate body armor better than .45ACP.
 
Neither round will stop a person wearing body armor if it doesn't penetrate and anyway, 9mm tends to penetrate body armor better than .45ACP.
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Having talked to some good friends returning from Iraq they told me that the .45acp rds would momentarily stun the BG for a second preventing him from shooting back. The 9mm would not have much effect. I did not see it with my own two eyes but trust the folks I talked too.
 
Color me very skeptical...

First of all, I would like to know what kind of folks you were talking to who claim to have had the "opportunity" to shoot multiple BGs in Iraq wearing body armor using pistols in both 9mm and .45ACP.

Second, given the general similarity in both energy and momentum in the two rounds, it doesn't seem to me that science would support the idea that one would provide significantly more of a "punch" given that neither penetrated.

Finally, if they knew that the BGs were wearing body armor, why in the heck were they using pistols? That seems like a strategy designed to shorten one's life.
 
I've drawn a blank searching for pics of cheap junk Al Queda body armor. Oh well.

I did find this though.

brewster-body-armor-1917-18.jpg
 
First of all, I would like to know what kind of folks you were talking to who claim to have had the "opportunity" to shoot multiple BGs in Iraq wearing body armor using pistols in both 9mm and .45ACP.
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Probably special blackops marine delta snipers or maybe an elite mall counter-ecotango team. Those guys are the elite that even the tier 1 guys look up to. Heck, I know a marine delta sniper and an air force seal with mossad experience who told me that people get stunned or even knocked down if you fire a 45 acp near a bad guy because the knockdown force is transmitted throw the air like a wave in the wake of the mighty 45 ACP FMJ.
 
Usual 2nd hand story here!! Take it for what you will--

Got a retired police officer friend--He said from discussing gunfights with other officers and his history taking of gunfight victims the WINNER of the gunfight with multiple shots fired was usually the FIRST ONE to shoot, but not neccessarily hit their target.This was not neccessarily the most accurate experienced shooter.His thoughts were that the loud noise of the gun going off gave an advantage to the first one who shot. The normal involuntary human reaction is to freeze and crouch!!

I think he may have something there!!
 
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