why is the 357 superior to the 9?

From a 4" barrel a 127 gr. +p+ Winchester Ranger is moving at about 1250 f.p.s. or better. Remember on an automatics barrel they include the chamber as part of the barrel. So it is doing that speed from actually about a 3" of barrel. Most 125 gr. .357 Magnum loads from a 3" barrel revolver are also doing around 1250 f.p.s.
Click to expand...

have a look at this

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

Even when fired from barrels measured the same way, the .357 Magnum is a good bit faster than the 9mm in all but the very shortest barrels (a 2" T/C Encore or semi-auto barrel would translate to only a 3/4" barrel on a revolver).
 
Not really the same thing. When hunting you are looking for a clean kill. So, with a .357 you may load a heavy hard-cast SWC that will punch all the way through damaging heart/lungs on the way. Two holes bleed better than one making the animal easier to track. In SD you are shooting to stop so you want the energy to dump inside the target. You don't want the bullet to exit because you are responsible for it until it stops and you don't want that happening in someone else.
Click to expand...

The idea that two holes bleed better than one is just not true. It doesn't matter whether the animal bleeds externally or internally, bleeding out accomplishes the same thing. Take it from a former "professional" game processor and current big game hunter. I will say that to stop a game animal running on adrenalin, a good "heavy hard-cast SWC" will break shoulder bones, thereby giving the hunter a chance to slow the animal down, hoping the bullet also did some damage to the CNS, lungs, or heart. One does not want to pick a cartridge that will shoot through a game animal any more than one wants to shoot through a "bad guy".
 
How is a gun that my wife refuses to shoot superior to the 9mm pistol that my wife can shoot out the x-ring with?
Click to expand...

Talking about the round, not the gun that shoots said round. I see your point though. Not worth much if she can't shoot it.
 
From Handgun Digest.
.357 from A 2.5" barrel:
125 grain Hornady XTP 1350 f.p.s.
125 grain Fedral Hi Shok 1370 f.p.s.
125 grain Remington Golden Saber 1161 f.p.s.
And just for fun 150 grain PMC Starfire 1071 f.p.s.
Several versions of the 147 gr. 9mm rounds will move at close to or better than 1000 f.p.s. We've already talked about the +P+ 9mm loadings. Some 125 gr. .357 loads are 75-100 f.p.s. than the 9mm +p+ loadings. In others they are slower than the 9mm +p+. Double Tap runs their ammo even hotter. Besting many of the .357 loads. Get a G24 9mm with a 5 inch barrel vs. a 4" .357 and they stay in about the same range of difference. The early records of the .357 reaching 1450 f.p.s. were from very long barreled model 27 S&W. Most of todays commercial loads are much milder.
 
From Handgun Digest.
.357 from A 2.5" barrel:
125 grain Hornady XTP 1350 f.p.s.
125 grain Fedral Hi Shok 1370 f.p.s.
125 grain Remington Golden Saber 1161 f.p.s.
And just for fun 150 grain PMC Starfire 1071 f.p.s.
Several versions of the 147 gr. 9mm rounds will move at close to or better than 1000 f.p.s. We've already talked about the +P+ 9mm loadings. Some 125 gr. .357 loads are 75-100 f.p.s. than the 9mm +p+ loadings. In others they are slower than the 9mm +p+. Double Tap runs their ammo even hotter. Besting many of the .357 loads. Get a G24 9mm with a 5 inch barrel vs. a 4" .357 and they stay in about the same range of difference. The early records of the .357 reaching 1450 f.p.s. were from very long barreled model 27 S&W. Most of todays commercial loads are much milder.
Click to expand...

Did you even look at my link?
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

With the exception of ridiculously short barrels and one odd 110grn .357 loading, .357 outperforms similar weight 9mm loadings by at least 75fps across the board.

The Federal and Hornady loadings you quote are both going a good 100fps faster than Winchester's +P+ 9mm and doing it from a snubby barrel. A fairer comparison would be the same .357 Revolver to 9mm velocities from a G26. The Remington Golden Saber is a "medium velocity" load and is intended as a lower recoil alternative to full-house .357 Magnums. You are not comparing apples to apples as you're looking at either mild or at best run-of-the-mill .357 Magnum loadings and comparing them to the very hottest 9mm +P and +P+ loadings. Have a look at the data for top-end and run-of-the-mill ammo in both calibers that I posted in post #31, when similar loadings in both calibers are compared, the .357 is nearly always more powerful.

The original specs for .357 Magnum was a 158grn bullet at 1500fps from a 8 3/4" revolver barrel. Modern loadings will push the same 158grn bullet at 1200+fps from a 4" revolver barrel. 125grn bullets will routinely break 1400fps from 4" revolvers unless they are downloaded like Remington's Golden Sabers are.
 
Talking about the round, not the gun that shoots said round. I see your point though. Not worth much if she can't shoot it.
Click to expand...

The round generally dictates the platform when it comes to a 357. When comparing the two rounds, a 357 shot from a snubby is far too brutal to shoot...and a larger 357 revolver is generally to heavy or unwieldy for my wife's liking. Which is why she wont shoot any 357. Yet a 9mm G17 or P226 is far easier for her to shoot.
 
Creature is right.

The .357 is simply a more powerful round than the 9mm. It is a better and more versatile hunting round than the 9mm. But as a self defense round, well that depends on the gun and the shooter. One can be as useful as the other.

tipoc
 
A little free advice from a 357 sig owner...

I saw a couple folks steer this guy towards a 357 sig. I have a Glock 31, picked it up for $300 bucks with 7 mags. I knew what i was getting into as far as ammo prices but now its just nuts. My gun shop used to sell WWB 40 for $11 box and the 357 sig was like $17.50. Since I bought a 40 barrel I would frequently shoot both calibers. Now the shop i frequent sells WWB 40 for $22 a box and WWB 357 sig for $43!!! Too much for me, I also used to buy lots of Fiocchi 357 sig for cheap but now its through the roof too. Oh well, I'm just saying if you want to shoot a lot either stick to a mainstream caliber or reload.
 
357 vs 9

I don't know much about ballastics but I think the beauty of the 357 is it's expansion abilities and it expends its energy in the subject as for 9mm I have a few 9's and love to shoot them however after seeing what Ive seen I wont use them for SD now that I DONT HAVE TOO! after its all said and done I think the 357 is the best SD round one can have.
 
The round generally dictates the platform when it comes to a 357. When comparing the two rounds, a 357 shot from a snubby is far too brutal to shoot...and a larger 357 revolver is generally to heavy or unwieldy for my wife's liking. Which is why she wont shoot any 357. Yet a 9mm G17 or P226 is far easier for her to shoot.
Click to expand...

Well I can understand the statement "Why is the 357 Superior to the 9?" being a false statement in your wifes case, but that statement doesn't apply to all of us. Some are ok with the recoil of a .357 MAG round and don't have a problem in carrying one.

Pure opinion of the end user.

Hey, at least your wife enjoys shooting, no matter the caliber.:D
 
Actually, the 9mm is way, way superior to the .357 in actual combat. Its lower recoil allows you to follow up with more shots far more quickly and accurately. While a .357 revolver can hold anywhere from 5 to 8 rounds, many 9mm handguns hold 13, 16, or even 18 rounds easily.

While else do you think that the US Army carries the Beretta M9???

The .357 magnum revolver is a dying gun and round, except in places where the ownership of semiauto pistols is outlawed.

.
 
Actually, the 9mm is way, way superior to the .357 in actual combat. Its lower recoil allows you to follow up with more shots far more quickly and accurately.
Click to expand...

By that logic my 22/45 would be superior to my P226 in actual combat. :)

While else do you think that the US Army carries the Beretta M9???
Click to expand...

Because the 1911A1 doesn't fire the stanard NATO round?

The .357 magnum revolver is a dying gun and round, except in places where the ownership of semiauto pistols is outlawed.
Click to expand...

You've got to be kidding. The .357mag will still be around when your grandkids are having grandkids. It's just too versatile as a target, hunting, and self defense platform. Guns that shoot the .357 will also shoot .38 special. What will a 9mm shoot besides 9mm? Guns that shoot .357 don't typically care about bullet profile. Anything from round nose to hollow base wadcutters seated flush with the case mouth work equally well. How many 9mm platforms can claim that?
 
My point is that the basis upon which the 9mm and 357 is being compared as a "superior round" is not always about terminal ballistics.
 
Back to the original question as to why the .357 can have higher velocities than an equivalent weight 9mm.

The SAAMI pressures listed for a gun/cartridge are peak pressures. It does not represent the pressure over the entire time the bullet is in the barrel. Since the .357 can hold more powder, it can utilize powders (and more of them) which develop a higher pressure over the entire length of a barrel than a 9mm. This is highly dependent, of course, on other factors like barrel length.

I'm not going to get into another debate about "effectiveness" of the calibers. It's too early in the morning to get a headache.
 
Doubletap ammo is just one place that actually loads the .357 Magnum to its capabilities.

Here is a 125 Grain .357 Magnum.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=48

Velocity: 1600fps / 4" Ruger GP-100
1425fps / 1 7/8" S&W
1750fps / 6"bbl S&W 686

Compare to a 9mm 124 grain(Basically the same bullet weight as the above loading).

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_37&products_id=120

Ballistics : 124gr @ 1310fps / 473ft. lbs. from a G17.
124 @ 1295fps / 462 ft. lbs. from a G19

This isn't about recoil or muzzle flash. I'm just talking FPS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top