Why did Police use the 38 Special instead of 45 Long Colt?

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It was largely politics. My Grandfather was a cop in Milwaukee during the 1920's and 1930's. He turned in his 38 telling the Chief, they are shooting at me with 45's I am shooting back with one.

He carried a 1917 S&W 45 colt, with pouches full of 1/3 moon clips with 45 ACP and a Springfield 03A3.


Into the 1980's the lead round ball 38 special load was known as the "Widow maker" because so many cops got killed after they shot someone with their 38's.
 
Most people are killed with a 22. Who doesn't know that?
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I don't. I was a Cop for 35 years, I saw a few people shot with a .22 but never saw anyone killed with one. I think I saw more people killed with a .38 than any other round.
 
I have not read the entire 4 pages of posts on this subject but the move to .38 spl was a step up for most police organizations in the early 1900's. The New York City and several other City Police organizations used the .32 S&W Long in the S&W and Colt revolvers in the early 1900's. So the move to .38 spl was an increase in power. The .38 spl was developed to replace the .38 Long Colt for military and police use. The New York State police were issued a 5" Colt new Service revolver in .45 Colt, until the 60's, when they adopted the .357 S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman. I remember Hudson's Sporting Goods selling the trade in New Service Colt's revolvers for about $50 per copy in 1968.

Doug
 
In Army Aviation we were assigned the M10 38 revolver because we were trained on shooting and reloading with one arm. Most of the combat course was utilizing our dominant hand, and the last portion with only the nondominant hand. On occasion we would train with personnel assigned to the nuclear field. On occasion we were issued the 45acp. Eventually we did end up being used the 9mm. But single arm shooting and reloading a semi is tougher than it looks. Not sure what they do today.
 
...PS when we did train/requal w the soldiers in nuclear assignments, they shot utilizing both arms and only had to qualify once a year, opposed to us in aviation qualifying twice a year w revolver and once a year w the air M60D machine gun.
 
To answer the original question.....because it was enough.

It was big enough without being too big. It was powerful enough without being to too difficult to handle. It was comfortable enough without being too small to be effective.
It worked. It still does.
It is easy to get caught up in all the little details, but the bottom line reality is that most shootings involve three rounds or less at close range. Now I know someone will pop in with their buddy's uncle's father who engaged x many over y ranges with z amount of bullets and got hurt.
It does happen.
We want to be ready for it.
But this is a quality of human nature......we can't optimize everything. There is no magic gun, caliber, bullet or technique. If police officers were to carry shotguns everywhere some of them would still be killed in the line of duty. Perhaps by the guy carrying a rifle at long range, or perhaps by the guy with a hideout pistol at very close range........or maybe even by the punk with a knife and the element of surprise.
A very un-pc reality is the following; police work is dangerous and officers will be injured and killed. Period. There is no level of optimizing calibers that will greatly effect that because of another fact that is equally un-pc.
Relatively few officers are killed in violent altercations in this country, and very few of those would have been saved by a different weapon choice....perhaps none. I don't say that to minimize their sacrifice in any way, but simply as a reality check.
I believe last year something like 170 officers died in the line of duty. I'm not sure what the breakdown of violent action vs accidents is in that number but I think half or better are vehicle related accidents. But even assuming one hundred percent murder it still isn't the epidemic that the media would portray it to be. If I recall correct there are over a million officers in this country of 320 million people. The concept of "many" officers being killed is simply not true.
You'll have to look at some other countries to see examples of "many" officers dying in the line of duty. Surprisingly the equipment doesn't save them there either, but then again ambushes are incredibly effective regardless of geographic location.
IF someone gets the drop on you from behind and puts a bullet in your skull, it won't matter what is in your holster.
You're dead.
 
In NY over the years, especially when zip guns were made from car radio antennas, the .22 was the perfect fit and used many times. I've seen plenty of cutdown .22 rifles used in robberies and shootings. Also, remember those rifles had no serial numbers, which was convienient. Today many are more sufisticated and the Tec9's and Macs would be desireable, but these things aren't available to everyone.

The .22 is the weapon of choice where organized crime hits are concerned. I personally seen the efficient results they had. With a suppressor they reign supreme. This and our neighboring state has a plethora of killings with the .22. The OSS used the suppressed High Standard .22 during WW2 for assassinations. The CIA still uses the deadly little .22 for those up close and personal moments.

The .22 is responsible for more accidental and deliberate shootings in the country. If we stop to think about it I have no doubt that the .22 rifles and pistols that have been manufactured over years way outnumber any other calibre including the .38 special. I'm sure there are some statistics that can substantiate that.

Most shootings that I've been involved with used either the .22, or ,25. The hideout guns are what is normally carried and used. I won't argue that point, cause at least here that's what most have been shot with. Of course they weren't all kills and a .22 wouldn't be my choice of calibre for either a defensive, or offensive round, but it does have it's place somewhere. If someone should have the time to luck up crime statistics from throughout the country they can be my guest.This is only my opinion and others can decide for themselves.
 
What part , if any, did the invention of smokeless powder have on the move from .32 to .38 special as a hand gun of choice in this country? It seems that they both started to show up about the same time...correct?
 
Oh boy, oh boy ,oh boy! I know people mean well and are only expressing an opinion and that's just fine. But there are different types of opinion. Those inexperienced in LE are one side, while those with experience are on the other. Those with the experience are giving an educated guess, cause they actually been there and done that. We're not always correct and even disagree among ourselves.The other side is expressing classroom stuff, which has nothing to do with the real world of police work.

Don't let the so called small amount of police officers killed in a country of maybe 320 million legal and illegal people give a false sense of security. Not all shootings and injuries result in death, which I'm living proof of. Police also have their fears while out on patrol, but they just can't show it and facing them day after day takes it's toll. In NY in the 60's and 70's, strapping on a so called adequate .38 special smith model10 revolver was not that comforting to those of us patroling Harlem, Bed Sty, Crown Heights, Brownsville, South Bronx, Lower Eastside. Knowing militant groups like the Panthers and the Black Liberation Army and just a whole mess of cop haters were out there armed the BHP's, 12ga shotguns, etc. wasn't a pleasant thought and we all wanted to go home after our tour. The outdated uniforms and weapons we were forced to carry were thrown at us and we never ever had anyone with any influence in the dept ask for our opinion.

We were required to keep an additional 12 rounds of ammo in 2 primitive leather pouches. I kept an additional 18 in bullet loops on my belt which became unauthorized. Try getting ammo out of those pouches with the adrenaline pumping. First you unsnap the flap. Then you pull the entire pouch forward to unsnap it and then turn it downwards and squeeze the sides gently 'till the ammo falls into the palm of your hand. Of course you're hoping they're all facing in the same direction before attempting to load the cylinder. Loose ammo dropping to the ground wasn't unusual either.

It's easy to read statistics regarding LE deaths across the country. Numbers mean nothing when you're one of the numbers. I'm glad people can sleep very comfortably at night knowing that very few cops get killed. Maybe it's because of these men and women that there aren't more police as well as civilian killings here like in Iraq.

The 38 was an improvement almost a century ago, but so were biplanes.
 
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Ok i think this one is just now going in circles with tje same rhings being said over and over.

At that point its time to shut things down.
 
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