Why did Police use the 38 Special instead of 45 Long Colt?

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ursavus.elemensis

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Why did Police use the 38 Special instead of 45 Long Colt?

I think I know (i.e., I could be wrong) that at some point in the late 1800's the military switched from the Colt 45 (long Colt) to the 38 Special, although I don't know why they did that. Then they changed to the Model 1911 45 ACP, supposedly because of the weak stopping power of the 38 Special in the Philippines.

But what about law enforcement? How did the 38 Special come to dominate law enforcement? It just sort of seems to me that the 44 Russian/Special or the The 45 Long Colt would have made more logical choices for widespread Police use before the introduction and adoption of the 357 Magnum and the change over to semi-automatics.
 
I also believe LEO's used 38 specials due to the versitility of the round (can be fired in small framed revolvers with out damaging them, can be fired from .357 revolvers, low recoil, low pressure round, low muzzle blast, cheap to produce, good power given the velocity and op pressure of said round, etc.) Just my .02 cents
 
I was thinking that the Police just followed the lead of the military in switching from Colt 45 to 38, but as someone pointed out above, I was wrong about the military using 38 Special; they actually used 38 Long Colt before going to the 45 ACP. So, what I guess I'm wondering is, with so many people who would have been familiar with shooitng Colt 45's or S&W 44's, why did one or both of those not eventually evolve into the standard Police caliber, and for that matter, when the military went to the 1911, why didn't municipal Police agencies follow suit?
 
This is an interesting topic, from what I heard the .38 spcl was designed as an improvement over the .38 lc due to inadequete stopping against the moros. Now I'm not sure why LEO did not use the 1911. This might be that from the start, the 1911 was designed to be a military specific weapon and the .45 acp designed to be a military specific round. The .38 spl was cheaper due to the fact it used less lead, and had very low recoil and muzzle blast, and were designed for revolvers from the revolvers from the start. Back then nearly every cop wore a .38 on his belt prob for economical and ergonomical reasons, but I am not entirely sure.
 
By the early 20th century there were DA 45LCs, but they were considered too big for daily carry by law enforcement. With some justification. And lacking hollowpoints, they were probably concerned about urban over-penetration.

You also had a lot of leftover attitudes among both law enforcement and criminals that any bullet was lethal due to infection. Penicillin wasn't yet widely available until long after WW1...hmm...I can't quite recall exactly when it WAS available to US civilian doctors. Whatever. Point is, early in the 20th Century you had NYPD standardized on a pretty wimpy .32 wheelgun and a lot of agencies not doing much better if at all.

By the time they DID want big power (or at least some did) the 357 became available and that took over. By the 50s the 357 was available in a K-Frame and there was no going back.
 
Also back even in the early 1900's the .45 lc's and .44 russians were considered obsolete.

+1 to Jim March, I heard that cops used trouble with the recoil of hot 125 grainers and that k frames wore out rather fast because of the full house 357. I'm not too sure, I'm only 23 so I still have a lot to learn in the world of firearms.
 
They used .38 long colts against the moros not .38 specials.
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Correct. The .38LC was considerably less powerful than the .38 special.
How did the 38 Special come to dominate law enforcement?
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The .38spl became (and remained) popular because it is a very good balance of power and controllability. There are some experts who have gone on record as saying that the .38spl is pretty much the top limit for what a typical gun owner can handle effectively. For example, Mike Venturino once asserted in an article that he knows "for certain it is about the largest cartridge non-enthusiast people can be taught to shoot with any degree of proficiency."
...when the military went to the 1911, why didn't municipal Police agencies follow suit?
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It was many years before autopistols were perceived to be sufficiently reliable for Law Enforcement work. It was commonly thought that autopistols were tools for experts but that civilians and police should restrict themselves to revolvers which were considered to be easier to learn to use and generally more reliable. It took a lot of years for things to change.
 
The .38 colt (case length .88 in) originated around 1875. In 1892, the army lengthened it to 1.03 and loaded a 150 grain round nose bullet behind 19 grains of black powder to give about 760 ft/sec. The .38 long colt was then chambered in the colt single action army revolver. I would bet that the changes you talk about, were driven by the firearms and not the cartridges. You could get a double action revolver chambered for the.38 spl (introduced 1902), but I don't think there were any double action revolvers chambered for the .45 colt (not long colt, which implies the existance of a short .45 colt. There never was a short .45 colt. And the .45 scholfield/S&W was not a short colt.)
 
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I believe the .38 spl was introduced in 1899:

It was released in 1902. There was a .38 short colt, it had a heeled bullet in a rimmed case intended for .36 cap and ball conversions to a metallic cartridge
 
two other reasons

How about rate of fire, and portability. By the early 1900's the DA revolver had made serious inroads on the SA, likely due to its higher rate of fire, ie no thumb cocking and faster reload. Most DA revolvers were smaller framed than the SA counterparts and I thinking the .38 was an improvement over .32's and such and fit into DA frame sizes of the time.

I'm thinking the .45 large frame revolver of the day was the 1917 type ,and they were very large compared to the medium and small frame .38 family.

LE used .45 cal, but in the 1911 pistol and in .45 ACP. Flatter, faster reload and repeat shots than a .45 SA. The Texas Rangers had a rep w/ the 1911, early on, the Bureau (didn't Dillinger get wacked w/ a 1911) to some extent.

I dunno, good question.
 
Mr. coolbreezy: I'm sorry, I switched subjects. The long versus short was refering to the .45 colt. I wasn't denying the existance of a .38 (short) colt. As I stated in my post the .38 (short) colt had a case length of .88 in. and the long colt had a case length of 1.30 in.
 
OK, so it sounds like it boils down to the fact that they did not have any DA revolvers in 45 Colt
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I don't think it's anywhere near that simple. Colt was making large caliber DA revolvers (New Service) before the turn of the century and S&W wasn't far behind.

By 1908 you could have your pick of either a Colt or S&W large caliber DA revolver.
 
Because no one wanted to carry a heavy, large framed revolver all day. The .38 Special is a very adequate police cartridge. It was a step up from the .32s that were popular in the past. The .357 magnum is really too powerful for most officers to handle consistently and effectively.
Only in the past 20 years has law enforcement followed the lead of the military. Police used to be regular old citizens (they still are, but you wouldn't know it by looking.)
 
I think Bill hit it on the head, the .38 is a more than adequate weapon that is easy to operate and carry. The "military" mindset of many police dept.'s is a relatively recent phenomenon.
 
This entire subject would require a book to fully explain properly.

Once upon a time, people had more respect for the law and the gun was carried as a badge of authority by the police.

Many police in the U.S carried .32s as well as .38s. The threat of being shot carried considerable weight at one time before the era of mind-crazing drugs and sociopathic behavior.

As our society began to break down, the need for more powerful, higher velocity cartridges emerged. To wit: The development of the .357 Magnum in the 1930s, et. al.
 
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