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why conceal in an open carry state?
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(what's that line from "Zardoz"?)irish52084
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Where I'm from, OC was almost unheard of 5 years ago. Some people began meeting up and discussing OC at Starbucks and the anti's had a hissy fit. The OC group still had their meetings and the anti's protested one at a Starbucks. Starbucks came out and said if the OCers were doing nothing illegal they would continue to serve them. Strangely enough, I don't think the anti's ever came back to protest again.
Since that incident made local news, OC has grown exponentially here. The police have become more educated on OC and preemption laws have removed some of the no guns allowed signs in our parks and other areas. Every once in a while a situation occurs with an officer who doesn't know the law and they hassle someone OC. Those situations are handled and usually end up with that officer and the department undertaking new training on the laws that pertain to OC and CC.
As OC has become more common here and people become a little more educated they become less fearful. The fear of guns and gun carriers comes from a lack of knowledge, we fear what we do not know. The more educated we make people, the less of an issue it is. It's funny how people get outraged when your gun is visible, but put a t-shirt over it and everything is fine. It's the same gun one way or another and just as deadly whether they see it or not.
You can only ever deter amateur criminals. If truly intelligent, motivated criminals want something you have, your firearms, OC or CC, won't change a thing. The fact remains, that most robberies of citizens on the street are more or less opportunity based. They aren't scoping you out for weeks. They see you walking down the street and an opportunity to make a few dollars. You can't prevent the hell bent criminals. They will commit their crimes regardless of deterrents.
Since that incident made local news, OC has grown exponentially here. The police have become more educated on OC and preemption laws have removed some of the no guns allowed signs in our parks and other areas. Every once in a while a situation occurs with an officer who doesn't know the law and they hassle someone OC. Those situations are handled and usually end up with that officer and the department undertaking new training on the laws that pertain to OC and CC.
As OC has become more common here and people become a little more educated they become less fearful. The fear of guns and gun carriers comes from a lack of knowledge, we fear what we do not know. The more educated we make people, the less of an issue it is. It's funny how people get outraged when your gun is visible, but put a t-shirt over it and everything is fine. It's the same gun one way or another and just as deadly whether they see it or not.
You can only ever deter amateur criminals. If truly intelligent, motivated criminals want something you have, your firearms, OC or CC, won't change a thing. The fact remains, that most robberies of citizens on the street are more or less opportunity based. They aren't scoping you out for weeks. They see you walking down the street and an opportunity to make a few dollars. You can't prevent the hell bent criminals. They will commit their crimes regardless of deterrents.
And wearing a gun openly will get their attention. So you deter most criminals, and at the same time attract the really determined ones who otherwise might not notice you. (just laying it out there, not making a judgement either way)You can only ever deter amateur criminals. If truly intelligent, motivated criminals want something you have, your firearms, OC or CC, won't change a thing. The fact remains, that most robberies of citizens on the street are more or less opportunity based. They aren't scoping you out for weeks. They see you walking down the street and an opportunity to make a few dollars. You can't prevent the hell bent criminals. They will commit their crimes regardless of deterrents.
As noted earlier, I see open carry as more of an advantage against animals than against BG's.
One other thing, going back to theoretical draw speed: If you are concerned with CC being too slow, go try out an IDPA match sometime. Most of the courses of fire require a cover garment, and realistic CC holsters and ammo holders.
Saw one guy last weekend draw, double-tap two targets, move to the other side of a barrier, double-tap three more targets, in 9 seconds.
One other thing, going back to theoretical draw speed: If you are concerned with CC being too slow, go try out an IDPA match sometime. Most of the courses of fire require a cover garment, and realistic CC holsters and ammo holders.
Saw one guy last weekend draw, double-tap two targets, move to the other side of a barrier, double-tap three more targets, in 9 seconds.
Irish said:If truly intelligent, motivated criminals want something you have, your firearms, OC or CC, won't change a thing. The fact remains, that most robberies of citizens on the street are more or less opportunity based.
OC vs CC changes everything - Perhaps your gun is what they will want - and now you've provided opportunity.
OC'ing unnecessarily paints a target on your back for many reasons, plain and simple.
Some seem to keep thinking that they are spooking away many would-be attackers, when in reality your odds of being attacked in the first place are very very small.
Honestly, I think the OC thing is mostly bravdo rooster struting blizblaz that provides miniscule advantages while giving up all of the substancial advantages of CC.
Longdayjake
New member
I don't like to reveal my hand before I place my bets.
Although NM is an open carry state, I prefer not to for many of the reasons already stated.
However, there is another reason. The laws are more restrictive regarding carrying in a place that sells alcohol. You cannot legally OC into
Walmarts or a Quick Stop gas station and go inside when OC. You can while CC. OC is prohibited in any place that sells alcohol, and it does not have to be sold for consumption on the premise.
Regards,
Jerry
However, there is another reason. The laws are more restrictive regarding carrying in a place that sells alcohol. You cannot legally OC into
Walmarts or a Quick Stop gas station and go inside when OC. You can while CC. OC is prohibited in any place that sells alcohol, and it does not have to be sold for consumption on the premise.
Regards,
Jerry
Ringolevio
Moderator
MLeake wrote:
I can see that. I spend a lot of time in the woods with my dog (not hunting, just walking). OC would be a convenience, but I still conceal.
BTW, if you're out in bear country, there are very few of the common "manstopper" handguns (other than the .357 or .44 magnums) that are going to do you much good. You'd be better off toting nothing less than a .30-06!
In fairness, I have to admit that when you see someone carrying openly, you have good reason to believe he is on the right side of the law.
But I still think the question should be "Why carry openly in a concealed carry state?"
As noted earlier, I see open carry as more of an advantage against animals than against BG's.
I can see that. I spend a lot of time in the woods with my dog (not hunting, just walking). OC would be a convenience, but I still conceal.
BTW, if you're out in bear country, there are very few of the common "manstopper" handguns (other than the .357 or .44 magnums) that are going to do you much good. You'd be better off toting nothing less than a .30-06!
In fairness, I have to admit that when you see someone carrying openly, you have good reason to believe he is on the right side of the law.
But I still think the question should be "Why carry openly in a concealed carry state?"
irish52084 wrote:
Eastern or Western??.
As a fellow Washingtonian my money is on Eastern. Or, if Western, you are on the Olympic peninsula or another seriously rural area. I would not like my chances of not being harassed for OC in any area of King county, 90% of Snohomish, Pierce, Thurston and the eastern half of Kitsap county and the Western half of Whatcom county.
The only time I OC in WA is when camping in Okanogan county. And during the drive there from my home in Snohomish county.
.......I have sat in Starbucks with 20 or so OC'ers, all carrying, and I watched every customer I could who walked through the doors. I'd guess that maybe 1 in 3 customers even noticed there were 20+openly armed people in the room with them. None of the customers ran away scared or acted scared, the police didn't come by and threaten us and nobody had their gun stolen.
Eastern or Western??.
As a fellow Washingtonian my money is on Eastern. Or, if Western, you are on the Olympic peninsula or another seriously rural area. I would not like my chances of not being harassed for OC in any area of King county, 90% of Snohomish, Pierce, Thurston and the eastern half of Kitsap county and the Western half of Whatcom county.
The only time I OC in WA is when camping in Okanogan county. And during the drive there from my home in Snohomish county.
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Ringolevio, my woods guns are .44 Magnum (S&W Mountain Gun 4" for hiking, S&W 629-3 6" for hunting) or 10mm (Fusion longslide 6" 1911, also for hunting).
Those are pretty much my only OC's, although sometimes I CC the Mountain Gun. The others are too long for easy concealment.
As good as a .30-06? No, but much more portable.
Those are pretty much my only OC's, although sometimes I CC the Mountain Gun. The others are too long for easy concealment.
As good as a .30-06? No, but much more portable.
True, but in my experience, some of them bear watching from a safety standpoint.In fairness, I have to admit that when you see someone carrying openly, you have good reason to believe he is on the right side of the law.
Thing is, Tom, that's one reason I sometimes think more of us should OC - to offer examples of normal, reasonable, mild-mannered types carrying in a professional manner, in order to offset the types you've described.
Assumes that the person seeing you can be convinced by examples. You can never permit yourself to forget the stupidity of the average person. My non-scientific estimate is that less than 1 in 3 people have anything functioning in their head except their lizard brain. This allows them to walk around, smell, taste, feel simple emotions like anger and fear but not much else. Such a person is impervious to learning by anything short of aversion therapy.
Showing people what they have learned to fear doesn't convince anyone of anything. I don't know what the solution is, but I don't think widespread open carry is it.
Saw one guy last weekend draw, double-tap two targets, move to the other side of a barrier, double-tap three more targets, in 9 seconds.
At one time I had a draw speed of less than 1/2 second with the snap applied. I have nothing even close with concealed carry. Time to initial presentation is much slower. Speed of splits is of secondary importance IMO to initial presentation.
I call time to initial presentation, time to duress. Duress kicks in once my gun threatens the bad guy. It compromises his ability to hit me and make good decisions.
Nowadays I mostly carry in a fanny pack. This is hyper slow. I must rely on Situational Awareness.
irish52084
New member
lawnboy:
The Starbucks meet up I posted about was in Lakewood, which is in Pierce county. Groups meet regularly in just about all areas of Washington. I know there is a meet in King county that has been ongoing for quite a while. The Lakewood meet up has only been going on regularly scheduled for about 6 months.
Honestly guys, very few people even notice an openly carried gun. Gun people notice most often, but even then they have to be looking for it. It's surprising how oblivious people are about it.
I personally OC for many reasons: Deterrent, ease of draw , comfort and largely to promote 2nd amendment rights. If you want to see many other peoples reasons for OC, check out opencarry.org. There's lots of people all over the country who are normal, safe, polite OCers. They are not after any special attention. Everybody whom I met at meets have been the normal average people, law abiding and nobody ran around screaming check out my gun it's got pearl grips and fancy gold accents.
Some states don't have an option to carry concealed and OC is their only option. In my state, if you're 18-20 years old you can't carry concealed. What are those people supposed to do? They have 1 option, and it's OC. Should they not protect themselves, because some people believe CC is better?
The Starbucks meet up I posted about was in Lakewood, which is in Pierce county. Groups meet regularly in just about all areas of Washington. I know there is a meet in King county that has been ongoing for quite a while. The Lakewood meet up has only been going on regularly scheduled for about 6 months.
Honestly guys, very few people even notice an openly carried gun. Gun people notice most often, but even then they have to be looking for it. It's surprising how oblivious people are about it.
I personally OC for many reasons: Deterrent, ease of draw , comfort and largely to promote 2nd amendment rights. If you want to see many other peoples reasons for OC, check out opencarry.org. There's lots of people all over the country who are normal, safe, polite OCers. They are not after any special attention. Everybody whom I met at meets have been the normal average people, law abiding and nobody ran around screaming check out my gun it's got pearl grips and fancy gold accents.
Some states don't have an option to carry concealed and OC is their only option. In my state, if you're 18-20 years old you can't carry concealed. What are those people supposed to do? They have 1 option, and it's OC. Should they not protect themselves, because some people believe CC is better?
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